From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #216 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 5 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 216 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Form Names the_dojang: RE: Form Names the_dojang: Test fees and Tests the_dojang: Re: kukkiwon dan prices Re: the_dojang: RE: Todds' Cert Questions the_dojang: Re: Arkansas bill the_dojang: Background Checks the_dojang: BackGround Check Question the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mr. Klingler" Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:25:22 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Form Names When I tested for 1st Gup, I did the form Bassai and Chulgi (or Chulgi Sho Dan). Six years ago when I took my 1st Dan test one of the forms was called Yunbe. I have been told by my master and GM that these forms do vary in phonetics greatly from place to place. It is unfortunate that there is not more of a standard at least with the names of forms and their origination. Just my 2 cents... Mr. K ------------------------------ From: "Mr. Klingler" Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:32:36 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Form Names Oh... Bassai is also called Bal Sak Dae. It means "Penetrating the enemies fortress". Very powerful TKD form. ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:04:55 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Test fees and Tests I'm not sure about the myriad of fees that are paid to organizations, but in my case, I first became aware of the DaeHan KiDoHae's fees after receiving 7th dan, when I was told that the fee was around $315.00, but that it had been "taken care of" by my instructor. When my wife and I were advanced to 5th and 8th respectively, the total fee for both ranks was lower than some of the 1st or 2nd dan fees that I see mentioned here. Why are the fees so high here in the states? Because we will pay it and folks know that. On a second subject, why in the world are there all these tests for higher dans who have been with their instructor for years? Recently I had the opportunity to promote two of my 3rd dans to 4th at the International Seminar. After 18 and 15 years of training and testing under me, what could I possibly ask to see that would sway me in one direction or the other as far as their ability and knowledge is concerned? I've seen them perform on a nightly basis since they were white belts, and I watched with pride as they tested for 1st, second and 3rd dan. If they are not ready at this point, I would consider it MY fault and not theirs. J. R. West www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:31:04 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: kukkiwon dan prices In a message dated 3/30/2001 3:00:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << >I seem to remember the fees were lower than that Does anyone know ? I am happy his friend waved his test fee for the sake of friendship< I tried accessing the information from the ftp site at martialartsresource.com but was unable to. However, Ray said that $700 was the fee for NINTH dan, so what is a third dan doing paying $750? Sounds to me like there WAS a test fee after all. If this is what he does to his friends, I'd hate to see what he does to his enemies. Taekwon, Chris >> these are the fees for poom and dan ranking for kukkiwon certs. i got this off of www.tkdreform.com. the first line is the rank, second is what koreans pay in Won, third line is what the koreans pay in US dollars, third is what americans pay for kukkiwon dan certification. melinda.... 1st Poom W 16,900 $ 14.69 $ 70.00 2nd Poom W 18,700 $ 16.25 $ 90.00 3rd Poom W 22,600 $ 19.64 $ 120.00 1st Dan W 18,700 $ 16.26 $ 70.00 2nd Dan W 22,600 $ 19.65 $ 90.00 3rd Dan W 28,700 $ 24.95 $ 120.00 4th Dan W 33,800 $ 29.39 $ 150.00 5th Dan W 41,100 $ 35.73 $ 300.00 6th Dan W 46,300 $ 40.25 $ 350.00 7th Dan W 52,200 $ 45.38 $ 450.00 8th Dan W 57,200 $ 49.73 $ 550.00 9th Dan W 65,600 $ 56.71 $ 700.00 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com Proud Sponsor of the 10th Annual 2001 US Open Taekwondo Championships ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:57:28 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: Todds' Cert Questions > "...If the founder of an art has an organization why wouldn't everyone want > to be associated with his organization?..." > I have wondered about this each and every time somebody starts up some "new" > style or "new" martial art. How come whats already out there just never > seems enough. I would submit that sometimes (often?) people -do- have a better idea. If new styles were never created we wouldn't have half of the most popular and effective styles taught today. Perhaps we wouldn't have any... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:39:51 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Arkansas bill One of the things the ATA does with it's instructors is require them to understand the materials and pass a written test on the "Youth Protection Program". This program was created by the Boy Scouts of America and gives some insight into what amounts to common sense viewpoints on being in a Leadership position where children are concerned. There is a lot of good information about indicators of child abuse, both physical and mental. More speaks on the solid idea that NO ONE ADULT should EVER be alone with a child. There should be two adults at least in the school at the same time, if not actually involved with the teaching. Along with the Youth Protection Program, I believe we keep three references on file. In all, it seems like a good approach. The Boy Scouts even encourages ANY person (instructor, Den Leader, etc.) who is in a Leadership position to go through the program. So, any parents who regularly help out in class, etc. should be exposed to the program. From what I remember, the Boy Scouts is not at all protective of the program. With an eye on what is best for the children, I believe they widely encourage ANY group to utilize the materials they have created. Um, granted this is not a "background check" but I believe it enhances a Martial Art's Instructors ability to handle their Leadership in a responsible way. Here's a link to some more information from a "frame" on the BSA web site: http://www.scouting.org/mags/scouting/current/a-prot.html Mark Lasich mark.lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Background Checks OK I'll jump in on this thread 1. "and for other purposes.." is a fairly standard phrase in the heading of bills, municipal ordinances, etc. I wouldn't be as concerned with that phrase as the actual content of the bill, and any last minute riders added on the floor. (I've worked for government 8 years now) 2. Buyer Beware! This is the U.S.A. Let capitalism rule. Student A - I am concerned for my child's safety would you be opposed to a background check. Instructor B - No problem, here is my most recent print out and for $x in this state you can purchase an up to the minute report. Student A is impressed with your candor and enrolls. Instructor C - No. Student A drives 7 miles down the road to Instructor B's studio. In short, if your market demands this "additional service" provide it, but if you receive no benefit (new enrollments) I wouldn't spend any money on it. Now back to student background checks. I have said before I would want to know a person a number of years before making a Dan promotion. Should we do a background check before promoting someone to Yudanja? I have had one student tell me over lunch he was a recovered achoholic, and two teenager's attempt suicide. Does this mean these students should have been screened from the rest of the class? What actions are harmful enough to screen someone from your program? Does this mean a person is guilty of that crime for the rest of their life, or should they have a chance for rehabilitation say through the self-improvement that comes with regular martial arts training? Or let's look at an average American child's day. On the bus with $7/hr part-time driver and older minors. In class with instructors making about $25K/year and a 18-33 to 1 ratio. Back on the bus to a daycare with more $7/hr employees and another high student teacher ratio. Get's a ride in the neighbors suv/van from daycare to soccer practice again a 15 to 1 ratio with a volunteer. Your child has spent 12 hours away from you, and the only people that might have ever had a background check are the school teacher (if you use a public school) and the soccer coach who probably paid money for the NYSCA certification so he/she could volunteer... Quite frankly the market just won't support the expense of everyone who has contact with your child having a current background check. You as an informed consumer will have to do your own research and make an informed decision. As an instructor, I wouldn't be opposed to someone performing a BC at their expense, and if it's free, I would do it for any potential student that asked me to, I have nothing to hide (OK a few speeding tickets ). I suppose big government's next move will be to demand the students have access to my school report cards?? Regards, Charles R. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Borski, Janis" Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:21:24 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: BackGround Check Question I find the background discussion interesting and timely but I would like a few answers to this question. How would background checks be conducted or legislated if your primary residence is not of this country or if you have lived most of your life in a different country? America is quite a melting pot and martial arts is certainly a perfect example of a mix of absolutely everybody from students to instructors. Thank you. Janis Borski ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 9:04:35 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #216 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.