From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #219 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 6 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 219 In this issue: the_dojang: the_dojang: more thougths on testing fees the_dojang: WTF address the_dojang: Re: styles/Ray Terry the_dojang: Background Checks the_dojang: Gup Fees the_dojang: Background Checks the_dojang: Background Checks the_dojang: RE: Children's Bill Of Rights the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:26:04 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Bruce writes: > But do we really need multiple Judo, Shotokan, Aikido > or even JKD organizations? And are THESE organizations as substanitively > different from THEIR originating organization to justify an entirely > separate hierarchy. Hi Bruce, I agree we might not need all these similar arts; however, we must allow enough freedom in our art to let it evolve and grow. You and Ray singled out several Masters as legitimate contributors, imagine if we had stifled them from making their contribution. Just WHAT do you think you would be practicing today if that had happened? As for myself, I just wanted enough room to be able to run my schools without politics, and I find that there are many others who need such freedom. It is not that we WANTED to leave, in my case it was that or quit teaching. Although I pondered it often, I'm happy that I did not give in to that notion before going my own way. I dare say that many other orgs have begun due to similar reasons. Some have started organizations to get rich, others simply want to ensure that there is a place for those who have, for one reason or another, felt the need to leave their organization. Some of us may not have found a need to change the art. We simply found an urgent need to change the prevailing policy to one of honesty and timely service. As Ray pointed out, there are contributions OTHER than additional or changed techniques. Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 17:15:49 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: more thougths on testing fees Hello list, In the Daehan/World Haidong Gumdo Federation, the fees for a gup test help cover the judge's time, cost of candles, lunch and if you pass, a new belt. My instructor doesn't really make any money from testing his own students. The revenue from enrollment has to be used to cover the expenses of most tests. Personally, I think this is fair. I see no reason why my instructor should pay for the expenses of a test entirely out of his own pocket. I also see no reason why a student should have to pay extra for a chance to prove they have learned what they paid to be taught. The fee for a gup test is 10,000 Won or roughly $12Cdn. This holds true in dan testing also. Our dan fees are the same regardless of rank (at least 1-4th are anyway) and these too go to defray the cost of neat new stuff as well as payment for the assembled panel of 10 judges. The fee for a dan test is 150,000Won. It's not as good a deal as the gup fee but it's still not a cash cow for the Federation. Anyway, apart from paying for the labour and material costs of your tests, should any promotion test have additional or inflated fees? I mean, really, that is like charging someone before letting them graduate from high school. If a first dan certificate is a printed piece of paper and so is one for second dan then the cost should be the same. By the same token, if a fourth dan certificate was a bronze plaque then it ought to cost more. Perhaps I'm too idealistic but... Got Sword? http://welcome.to/haidonggumdo ------------------------------ From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 18:30:01 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: WTF address Ladies and Gentlemen, A few weeks back, Mr Terry posted addresses for Korean MA organizations. The e-mail address for the WTF or Kukkiwon was listed as follows: wtf@united.co.kr The proper address should be (note the one letter change in the domain name): wtf@unitel.co.kr Sincerely, Emil Fisk fiskej@pd.jaring.my ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:52:58 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: styles/Ray Terry Ray, But the REAL question, for your "We have that, too"-do is HOW MUCH are your testing fees ;-) Since you have everything, you'll probably charge the sum of all other styles combined? Or, in the Um Yang spirit, perhaps by having everything, we should pay nothing!!! All in fun, folks, Mark Lasich mark.lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 05:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Background Checks By the way Charles, What did kind of grades did you make in school? Especially Conduct? He He He... Expelled from private school in 5th grade. Spent all of gym period in the vice principal's office in 11th grade. Got a 1.44 gpa my first semester of college. But all of that was before I started in the martial arts . GM Shin, J.C. and my instructors got to read about how TSD and it's values changed all that in my Cho Dan Essay. I passed my professional engineering liscence exam after I started my first dojang, and a few months before my 2nd Dan exam. Back to BG Checks: I believe in Georgia you would need a releaase to check someone's background other than references. If the employee was dismissed about all you can say is that they work for you from date X to Y. Many firms include a GBI investigation, drug screen and or credit check as a condition of employment. There are firms that offer these services, but they usually get a report from GBI and Equifax along with a third party lab doing the drug screen. (GBI = Georgia Bureau of Investigation) I guess in Georgia, I could request GBI for a report on myself and make it available to my prospects, but I've never tried that. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Gup Fees Dear All, I talked to one of my existing students about going to a billing service, and packaging programs with the necessary gear and exam fees rolled into the price, and they loved it. I'm sold. I just charge a little more monthly, and TEST THEM WHEN THEY'RE READY. It's so simple I actually think it will work. Actually Master Weichel (my TSD mentor) is already doing this and he and his parent like it. Of course for me the only overhead in a gup exam is the wholesale cost of the belt. I just buy the appropriate belt and gear when they enroll, and keep it in inventory until it's appropriate to issue. I am planning on my Yudanja to receive the USKMAF certificate, my Dan manual, a complete Heavyweight Dobahk with trim, and a monagramed belt. Tentative fee is $200 for 1st Dan and $200 for 2nd Dan (but 2nd Dan only gets the certificate and new belt). I would hope anyone I promote to 3rd Dan is assisting me with classes, and I would be happy to pay the USKMAF fee for their certificate. Thinking Out Loud, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Background Checks From www.ganet.org/gbi/crimhist.html REQUESTS FOR CRIMINAL HISTORY RECORD CHECKS Employment/Licensing and Visa (Travel) Purposes - Georgia law and GCIC Rules allow for criminal history record checks for employment/licensing and visa (travel) purposes provided an inked set of fingerprints is furnished for the individual whose record is sought. The prints must be taken by an authorized government agency. The fee for this record check is $15.00 payable to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. This check will be for a Georgia record only. Georgia law and GCIC Rules allow for Local Criminal Justice/Law Enforcement Agencies to furnish criminal history record checks provided a signed consent form is furnished from the individual whose record is sought. Fees vary. Georgia law and GCIC Rules also allow for Local Criminal Justice/Law Enforcement Agencies to furnish felony conviction information on individuals. Consent is not required. Fees vary up to $20.00. Record Inspections - Georgia law and GCIC Rules allow for an individual or their attorney to inspect their own criminal history record, upon written application, should the person contest the accuracy of the record. The individual must provide positive identification (name, race, sex, date of birth, and Social Security number) and an inked set of fingerprints. The fee for the record inspection is $3.00, payable to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. Records from other states or the FBI cannot be furnished. Any questions concerning these record requests should be addressed to: Georgia Crime Information Center Computerized Criminal History Operations P. O. Box 370748 Decatur, Georgia 30037-0748 So for $3 and a complete set of inked fingerprints, I could get a complete GBI history, but it would exclude my past in South Carolina, Maryland, and Virgina (except for driving record, which transfers with DL in all those states). Hope that is helpful for those who are interested. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Background Checks Dear All, For those of us in Georgia you can go to the GBI website and do a search http://www.ganet.org/gbi/ Click on the Sex Offenders link Read the discalimer You can search by Name, Zip, City You will get address, conviction date, photo if available, and offense convicted of. I will share this info with my prospects if they ask about a BG check for me (I'm not in the dBase). I will check this dBase before I have anyone assist me with teaching or coaching. I tried it and got 5 people for "R" in the name field and my zip code including one with a picture, and one within one mile of my house (scary) FYI, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:11:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Children's Bill Of Rights > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" > Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:29:46 -0400 > Subject: the_dojang: Children's Bill of Rights > > WONDERFUL!!!! Kerry WTF TKD ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 9:01:16 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #219 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.