From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #234 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 11 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 234 In this issue: the_dojang: endura the_dojang: Yudo the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #233 the_dojang: Carsten is pi**ed off the_dojang: RE:Nights of the Roundtable the_dojang: Promoting Your School the_dojang: Bringing Hapkido Together the_dojang: RE: Transitions the_dojang: GM Cacoy Canete Doce Pares Eskrima seminars the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #233 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #233 RE: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #233 (fwd) the_dojang: forwarding... the_dojang: KKW Certification Re: the_dojang: KKW Certification the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Richards Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: endura <> "clipit endura" Is this a good knife to carry ? I have it on all the time and it is very sharp as I have cut myself with it a couple of times too. But I don't know anything about knifes ... <> Illona, I knew Mr. Terry or M. Rowe would respond, and they know way more about knives than I do, but I looked at the endura, which is basically a delica with a camping clip. I would agree it is an excellent daily carry knife, and yes very sharp. I went with the CRKT Carson because the blade is substantially thicker (0.1 inch), and the bolsters and bushings are sturdier (IMHO). I could actually flex the delica and feel free play in the bushings when applying lateral force. I'd say it's also an acceptable tactical folder if you don't do any violent thrusting . Any knife that's sharp is good to cary . Got Knife, Charles R. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 7:04:43 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Yudo Forwarding... Ray - ----------------------------------------------------- Korea Approves New Kwan for Yudo Joseph F. Connolly, II On Christmas Eve, the Korea Judo Association approved a present for traditional Korean military art practitioners, the registration of a new Yudo kwon. The kwon, Chung Tong Yudo or Original Style of Judo, is the successor to the Republic of Korea (ROK) Yudo Association. The ROK Yudo Association was originally formed in 1935 with the approval of Jigoro Kano, founder of Judo, obtaining its present name after Korea's liberation. In the years following Kano's death, his students changed what he had taught turning Judo from a virtually complete system of self-defense to a martial sport, something which Kano himself strongly opposed. At the urging of the Korean government, a number of different organizations were formed to support the practice of this sport, a sport in which the Koreans have demonstrated themselves among the best in the world, since taking the mat in international competition. Meanwhile, the ROK Yudo association continued to practice the art as Kano intended it to be taught, as a means of self-defense. In 1998, the ROK Yudo Association authorized a new organization to be formed for the purposes of: 1. revising the technical practice of the art, based upon traditional principles but incorporating recent scientific and technical findings 2. establishing a standardized curriculum to meet the needs of traditional practitioners for professional education, as well as technical training, in a format consistent with emerging multi-national standards of academic excellence; 3. to develop the base for an international organization supporting the worldwide study and practice of Yudo as a complete system of self-defense, based upon the art as founded by Jigoro Kano but incorporating the technical, scientific and educational advances since the death of the Founder; and, in a self-renewing traditional Korean military art. Chung Tong Yudo is a military art in that it is intended strictly for self-defense with no sporting aspects, is restricted in its study and practice to adults of good reputation, and is grounded in the timeless ethic of the classical warrior - Duty, Honor, Country. This action by the Board of Directors of the Korea Judo Association, Korea's representative to the International Judo Federation, ensures the survival of the historical lineage of Judo as an art firmly established in Korea by the Founder of that art, long before it was modified to its current form as an Olympic sport. It also brings to full circle the evolution of what started as Kano-Ryu Jujutsu, since the new kwon incorporates the rank requirements of the Korea Hapkido Federation fulfilling them whenever applicable with traditional Yudo techniques. This decision by the Korea Judo Association demonstrates bold leadership and a clear vision that, when it comes to Judo in Korea, both the traditional art and the contemporary sport are alive and well, and enjoying mutual respect and collegiality. Yudo Terms to Know Amaury Murgado 1. Yudo is the name of the art. 2. Chung Tong Yudo (Original Style of Judo) is the proper name of the Kwan. 3. Chung Tong Kwan Yudo is the correct name of our particular style in the art which we study and practice. 4. US Yudo is the shortened name for United Sates Yudo Association, Inc., which is the National Governing Body for Yudo in the United States and the 1st national association member body within the International Yudo Federation. 5. International Yudo Federation (IYF) is the International Governing Body for Yudo, under ChungTongKwan Yudo. The member bodies of the IYF are the national associations within the various nations which will have ChungTongKwan Yudo in their individual countries. ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:53:45 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #233 <> What kind of Dogs? German Shepards, Bulldogs, Jack Russell terriors? Jack ------------------------------ From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:03:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Carsten is pi**ed off Hi Folks, Sorry Carsten, I still haven't had time to write a reply (working full time, plus teaching 3 college classes, plus running 2 clubs, plus kids and, oh yeah, a wife!). But I did download all of the material you pointed out, printed out a hard copy, and saved the entire html and photos etc. to disk, so I AM paying attention to what you're saying! :) > Sure, he can talk about how the training was like in America > 25 years ago when he was still active in Hwarang Do - but he > cannot talk about what Hwarang Do is today. Why? Because it's > 25 years since he trained Hwarang Do. I agree with this partially. Even though I don't train hwarangdo, I do know something about it because I can read about it and watch what's happening. That doesn't make me an expert, just an informed layman. But Bob's experience with GM Lee in the pioneering days of hwarangdo in the US does make him a vital source of evidence, in my opinion. Part of my problem is that I try to stick to either what I have seen myself, or what others have written. What they have written may not be true, but I don't have access to those 1960s hwarangdo books you do, so I don't have anything to refute what he might say. What happens then is that I tend to infuriate the students of various Korean masters by implying that somehow the information from this American student (Duggan in this case), is just as valid as that from his instructor (GM Lee). The problem is that we have conflicting data from various Korean masters. Some of this is published, much of it is not. But those conflicts result in strong disagreements among practitioners of various styles, or even of various practitioners of the SAME style under different instructors (as we have seen in the last few weeks with hapkido). Necessarily, as a historian, I have to appraise each piece of evidence and see which one is more convincing. Another problem is that often instructors will backdate documents to give them greater authority, and hence themselves and their students greater power within organizations. Link that to the mutability of the oral record, and you have a king-sized headache sorting through the material. Carsten writes: >Are the first people who > trained Taekwondo in America the most trustworthy experts on > Taekwondo history? Not the most trustworthy perhaps, but personal experience is an important criteria in judging evidence, isn't it? > Oh BTW, why can I talk about Hwarang Do? Living two years in > Korea, 1 ½ years of which were in Hwarang Dojangs, talking > again and again with Hwarang Do masters, Hapkido masters, > Kuksool Won masters etc. From reading old Korean Hwarang Do > articles, books, watching 8mm films and constantly asking GM > Joo Bang Lee questions. > I can see why that is less credible than if I had trained on > and off to 2nd dan 25 tears ago. I don't think anybody here doubts Carsten's knowledge. Maybe it would help if I ranked the evidence he lists? 1. Watching 8 mm films -- this is the best evidence (seeing is believing). 2. Reading old articles (or books) -- obviously the evidence has a date on it, so you can be assured that at least the data in the article was extant at that time. The closer the material is to the period being discussed, the more authority it has. 3. Talking to masters -- This is good, but human memory is a VERY changeable thing. Do this experiment. Go home this Easter (if you celebrate it), and ask your family to write their personal memories of an event in your childhood that you remember vividly, something that they would remember as well. Then compare everyone's written statements. When I did this, I reminded them of when I found a squab (a baby pigeon) whose mother had been caught by a mink. I remember raising it, feeding it by hand, and that it would fly to my hand as a result. Then we went on vacation and either he (Ichabod by name) got eaten or just forgot about me. What my family said was different: a. My brother agreed with most of what I said, although he thought it was a mourning dove, not a pigeon. b. My mom thought it died as a squab, because it choked on some grain. c. My dad thought it was a crow, perhaps because my childhood buddy Victor had a pet crow. Anyway, I WILL read that material Carsten and take it in. But folks, try the family memory experiment this weekend. Just be sure not to pick something that will cause a lot of hostility in the family (my mom still SWEARS she didn't vote for Reagan!). Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick email: burdickd@indiana.edu www: http://php.indiana.edu/~burdickd phone: (812) 855-6869 fax: (812) 855-6410 ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:15:07 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Nights of the Roundtable Dear Richard: "...The Hapkido GrandMasters Roundtable sounds like a great idea. Maybe some of the GM's on DD could be the roundtable participants. Could Bruce post the top ten questions he would ask and let DD members reply? Just a thought...." There are a few ways this could come off. Certainly one could attempt to physically get the personalities in the same room together. Usually most interviewers provide a list of questions, or identify areas of interest, or at the very least survey for specific topics which are considered offensive or off-limts. Personally I like the idea of presenting a set number of questions to which all of the individuals could relate and having them respond. In some ways this would be a negative in that one could not single-out a specific issue with a specific issue. The upside is that one could read the responses and be able to compare different points of view concerning a particular topic. Another way to do this would be to have the publication as a sort of go-between/rep for the GM-s and someone such as myself presenting issues on behalf of the Net. The logistics and chances for mis-interpretation go up, but the resultant distance may provide additional comfort to the participants. One last way to work this might be to have each GM designate a rep to speak on their behalf. In a fantasy S Don Hahn might speak for GM Myung, Carsten for GM Lee, JR for GM Kimm, Rich for GM Ji and so on. This would probably be about the same as what we have now except that one would assume that the respective reps would consult with their GM directly for verification or additional details. Before I organize any questions, does anyone have any thoughts on these options--- or perhaps a suggestion of their own? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "hackworth" Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:05:44 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Promoting Your School Stone wrote: "Hey folks, just a thought, What do you all do to promote yourselves (your dojang) within your community to foster that feel good feeling of being a community friendly bus.. Please don't confuse this with direct advertising, but rather, the methods you use to get your name out there without really expecting anything in return. ie. a local bar sponsering the little league.... I'm doing a paper for school on Promotional strategy and I need a few ideas to get running.." You can find many ideas in my articles at www.pbms4me.com in the authors section under Richard Hackworth. I hope the info helps. Richard Hackworth http://ma_success.tripod.com Amaury Murgado wrote about "A Chance to Learn Korean on the Internet" I am amazed at how many Korean stylists "want" to learn Korean. Going native is a strange thing in the martial arts community. My experience has taught me four essential things. 1. That being able to speak Korean allows me to hear their insults about Americans in their native language. 2. That just because you speak Korean does not mean Koreans want to speak to you. 3. If you really want to impress your Korean GrandMasters, spend more time on the mat. 4. Now you are able to accidentally offend them in two languages. For more information on learning Korean Martial Arts, go to www.martialartsresource.com ------------------------------ From: "hackworth" Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:51:45 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Bringing Hapkido Together Andy wrote: "I have said before that Hapkido related arts should come together however you will never get GM Seo, GM Suh, GM Lee etc etc in one room to discuss history. They KNOW the truth and they have independently decided what they are going to tell the public. I personally think if the big names of HKD got together it would help everyone. " Some place between these variations of "History" is the facts. Hopefully they will decide someday to print the whole truth. Richard Hackworth www.nationalhapkido.net ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:20:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Transitions Dear JR: "...Mr.Nichols met death with grace and dignity with his family beside him. Jim was a good man, and I will miss him..." I cannot claim to have known the man. What diminishes the family, diminishes each member of that family as well. I hope you find an opportunity to share my sympathies with the family. "The Golden Bell that rings but once. Peace upon the pillow." Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 9:05:07 PDT Subject: the_dojang: GM Cacoy Canete Doce Pares Eskrima seminars FYI... 2001 schedule for Doce Pares Eskrima GM Cacoy Canete. Your chance to train with a true living legend. May: 5th Asian Fighting Arts, 5099 Springboro Pike; Daytona, Ohio 45449; Email: pencakahantu@yahoo.com Contact: Ken Pannell @ 937-293-5520 12th House of Champions, 17631 Vanowen St., Van Nuys, CA 94533; Email: Contact: Mark Parra @ 818-996-7180 19th Tony Ramos Kajukenbo, 1363-B Oliver Rd., Fairfield, CA 94533 Contact: Sifu dave Amiccuci @ 797-425-1154 26th Open for scheduling June: 3rd, 9th & 17th Open for scheduling 23rd Dacascos Martial Arts, 3104 SW.87th. Av, Portland, OR 97225; Email: SifuAl@aol.com Contact: Sifu Al Dacascos @ 503-292-5273 24th Ron Tapec, 14224 80th St.E, Puyallup, WA 98126, Contact @ 206-848-6577 July: 7th Open for scheduling 14-15th MONTREAL CANADA Contact: Chris Bautista 21-22 Reading Martial Arts Academy, 8711 Reading Rd., Cincinnati, Ohio 45215; Email: rmassifu@one.net Contact: Rick Teeple @ 513-821-8221 28th American Martial Arts, 281 Belmont St., Boston, Mass 02478; Contact Bobby Giordano @ 617-489-7373 29th Open for scheduling August: 5th IMB Academy, 22109 S.Vermont Av., Carson, CA 90502; Email: R.Bustillo@worldnet.att.net Contact: Richard Bustillo @ 310-787-7893 11th House of Champions, 17631 Vanowen St., Van Nuys, CA 94106-4353; Contact: Mark Parra @ 818-996-7180 18th West Doce Pares Master's Annual Tribute, PO Box 33020, San Jose, CA 95152-3020 Email: jebrup@worldnet.att.net; Contact: Rev. Rupert Bisquera @ 408-946-2825 19th Glen Tenud's Taekwondo, 6198 Mission St., Daly City, CA 94014, Contact: Glen @ 650-992-9937 Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:40:43 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #233 <> << What do you all do to promote yourselves (your dojang) within your community >><> My personal favorite tactic is to do demos at local grade school. ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:58:02 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #233 <> Hey, that wouldn't be a reference to lame Italians, standing on a street corner, trying to perform techniques they learned while watching Kung Fu Theater, would it? - -Cheree CHARMELLO (note the nice, heritage defining O on the end of my name) Just in Fun :o) ------------------------------ From: "Michael Fell" Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:11:27 -0700 Subject: RE: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #233 (fwd) Dog Meat in Korea: Koreans do eat dog meat. It is on the menu in many restaurants. Anyone who says that they don't eat dogs is wrong. It is a simple fact. There is no debate whatsoever. It is a fact. Simply go to Korea and check it out for yourself. Korea word for Dog is "Gae". Korea word for Ribs as in Spare Ribs is "Go-Gi". Korea word for Dog meat is "Gae-Go-Gi". Sorry to say this is all true and factual. Worse off is in order to make the meat even more tender they will beat the dog to death with clubs. Sorry to say this is true too. Cultural awareness is sometimes shocking between different cultures. Other interesting differences between Korea and USA. USA: Emergency dial: 911, Korea dial 119 Information dial: 411, Korea dial 114 Traffic lights stack vertically, Korea they lay horizontally. Expression "Save your Ass", Korean expression "Save your Face" Best regards, Michael ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:19:54 PDT Subject: the_dojang: forwarding... Forwarded message: Ray - --------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Form Names and GM Chun Book Good catch Danny on Palsek, I usually see it a Pal Che in addition to Bassai. Yonbe is most probably EunBe or Empi from Shotokan, which is Wanshu in Okinawa. My web site expired, but I have a decent (probably never complete) cross reference of the forms and their name variations. Once I get done with taxes, I be putting it into its new home and send a URL here. Sending this from work, so please respond to CSMADave@cox.rr.com, or the digest. Thanks Dave Hacker CSMADave@cox.rr.com (was CSMADave@mgfairfax.rr.com) - ---Clipped and shortened---- Charles, Congratulations on your new dojang. Hope all goes well for you. I have seen Bassai written as Palsek. I am trying to remember where. Possibly some of GM R. Chun's shorter books. I assumed it was just a phonic spelling variation. But I don't remember seeing "yonbe". Also, some dojangs use the name Chulgi instead of Naihanji. I remember my first instructor did this. The forms were the same. Danny Dunn ------------------------------ From: "Frank Clay" Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:48:12 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: KKW Certification I know this is late, however, I would like to comment on the comment that you do not have to have a KKW for anything through the USTU. This is actually not true, as last year we had a USTU Referees seminar here in VA. In order to attend you had to have atleast a KKW 1st dan. You have to remember there are often times two policies in most organizations. The published and the unpublished. The published is a CYA thing to prevent someone from getting in trouble. The unpublished is simply from practice, or the "this is the way it has always been done" thing. Like it or not, both exist. This is the reason there are always so many law suits, because people always seem to think they know a better way or the established way does not apply to them. Then you get a tort situation because someone feels they were, or in fact they were, violated. mho. Frank Clay Welcome to visit Shaolin Disciple's Site at http://shaolintemple.yeah.net ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:25:32 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: KKW Certification > This is actually not true, as last year we had a USTU Referees > seminar here in VA. In order to attend you had to have atleast a KKW > 1st dan. The above was apparently changed this year. So not true last year, true this year. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:26:19 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #234 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.