From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #253 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 23 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 253 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: instructors/Joe Clark the_dojang: Re: your mail the_dojang: Dr. Kimm's Books the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #252 "instructors" the_dojang: Re: Belts the_dojang: Moving on the_dojang: Dee the_dojang: He Young Kimm Books the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:34:28 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: instructors/Joe Clark It seems your experience parallels one of my own...Sorry to hear of your experience, but glad things worked out for you. This leaves me with several questions: 1) Is it standard practice that commercial schools rely heavily on "volunteer instructors" to handle the bulk of the school's scheduled classes? 2) What incentives are used to encourage those individuals when it costs them time, money and effort for the privilege to 'volunteer'? 3) Why is it that some instructors are compensated or rewarded with 'free' equipment, gear, etc., while other's talents are just used because they simply seem to enjoy it? 4) How come the respect for the long term, dedicated students, who help maintain and foster growth of a school, seems to decline over the years from some school owners/Masters? Granted, many of these thoughts may not be standard practice (at least I hope not). But recent threads here seem to indicate that there is a big problem with some school owners, etc. who only handle their schools as businesses, and not as true Martial Artists. I liked the beginning of your last paragraph: >There is a whole wide wonderfull world of experiences >out there just waiting for you. Step out of the box >and see what there is to be learned. I've stepped outside my box, and am excited about the possibilities. That old box was just so comfortable, that it is very hard to make that "second" step (the first was to step outside the box in the first place!). There are so many ways to step, that it's taking time to decide which direction is the right one for me at this time! Mark mark.lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 8:43:32 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: your mail > If one were trying to make training more "realistic", how would you alter the > environment? Also, what areas of training (or physical attributes) would you focus on. > For instance, to train for uneven ground, one might work on balance. One can train in > confined spaces, of vary the lighting. > > Does anyone else have any thoughts? Try variations on these themes; tight jeans, hiking boots, ice, mud, at the beach, lube up your hands & forearms with KY-jelly, in the dark, in the dark w/the street light in your eyes (and then at your back), one hand or arm or foot or leg injured, etc. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:54:21 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Dr. Kimm's Books Philosophy of Masters is a TREMENDOUS book if philosophy is an interest to you. I have found that every time I read my copy, the meanings and interpretations seem to change. As far as his TKD book is concerned, it is NOT about TKD, but rather about HapKiDoesque (how about THAT one , Bruce?) self defense techniques for TKD practitioners. If THAT is what you are interested in, why not just buy his HapKiDo Bible?...J. R. West www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: "Len White" Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:12:12 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #252 "instructors" Got to agree with Joe Clark. We had a remarkably similar situation where the former school and owner (different area of the country to Mr. Clark) left our family on the verge of taking up Chess. When we left the school we spent a good deal of time both in reflection about our part in the decline of our relationship withthe instructor, and in deciding on a new school, if there was to be one. Two great things happened. First we came across the Elite TKD school in Houston. While many do not like the school (for whatever reason) we fell into it with enthusiasm, and have fully integrated with the students and instructors, and have a huge respect for them all. We continue to learn, and enjoy all facets of the school, and the art. Then disaster struck - while sparring with my wife I broke her radius just above the wrist. In itself this was minor, but the wound became infected after pinning (the pins were infected during surgical insertion - a whole 'nother story) and she nearly lost the arm, and it is likely that she will not be able to return to work (as an MD) due to loss of use of the wrist and fingers of her right hand. On her first day in hospital, after the emergency surgery to remove the infected tissue and bone, a miracle occurred. Many many friends called, brought gifts etc., then the phone rang and a friend of our former instructer asked how we were enjoying our new school. A little bitterly I explained that I was on the way to the hospital to see my wife. An hour later the former instrutor turned up at the hospital with kindness and concern - he had apparently missed us as a family and was devastaed to hear of our misfortune. While the road to recovery will be long, and there are many big questions to be answered, we will always have in our hearts that moment when our "old" instructor came into the hospital room and hugged us both. We will not return to his school as students, but we have vowed to remain in contact. Don't lose sight of the fact that, as humans we have many sides to our personalities. Under that thick skin of machoism most of has a softness that we do not want to admit to, and yet when it matters we must let it out despite the internal battle to remain aloof, distant or "correct". God made us as his people - let us not become too individual when it really matters. Thank you for hearing my story. Len White ------------------------------ From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:46:22 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Belts In a message dated 4/23/2001 6:57:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << If you are a black belt that has an embroidered belt, what do you have on it? where did you get it from? >> My belt on one end has the name of my school and assoc. in Korean, and on the other end my first name in Korean with the number of my dan ranking. The belt was presented to me by my GM at a regular belt ceremony. Our GM (or someone at the assoc level) has the belts custom-stitched for the BBs, which is included in our test fee. The stitching is a different color for each dan ranking. Normally, color belts do not have any stitching, but if the student wishes, we will have a belt stitched with the school and/or assoc name and/or their name, at the student's cost. DS ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:27:10 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Moving on Instructor Clark writes: > The bottom line here is quite simple. If as an > instructor you are not being compensated in some way > for your loyalty and dedication to the school, either > monitarily, or through advanced training, (neither of > which we received to any great degree), it is time to > ask yourself why you remain. Hello Mr. Clark: While your situation may be, or have been, totally different, I can relate it to some degree to similar situations that are quite easily misunderstood by those who are "allowed" to do some teaching in their Instructor's school. As a part of giving my students the opportunity to learn more about their techniques (advanced training), they are required to do some teaching. Indeed, sometimes I give them the responsibility of a class to give them more confidence in addition to furthering their technical skills. This method of furthering a student's personal abilities can actually be a liability to the school (instead of the asset the "assistant" often thinks s/he is to the school). In worst case scenarios, this "allowance to better themselves" is mistaken to the point where students actually think of themselves as fully fledged Instructors. Nothing could be further from the truth. It takes special skills and many years of additional training to become an Instructor, and most of the "assistants" indeed never make the grade as an Instructor. In a good school, Instructor Training is an apprenticeship. As such is usually a non paying position, where additional training received in exchange. Whenever the "assistant" has either taken advantage of the opportunity to better him or herself (or has shown that it is a complete waste of time for all concerned) it is time to end the program in the same manner as one moves on with other aspects of the art. It is at that time, that a misundertood relationship (where the student/assistant thought of him or herself as an Instructor) can become strained. IMHO, this is an unfortunate end to what could have been a very beneficial part of the student's training. In such cases, the student/assistant has merely exchanged some additional skills for a much more important aspect of training -- respect. As Master of my school, I can undoubtedly give my students better instruction than my assistants can. Fifty years of experience gives me this advantage. For those who ask "why then don't you?", my reasons are very simple. Those whom I give such priviledge need that aspect of training. If I deny them the opportunity, they may never truly understand technique. How do I justify not giving ALL my students the benefit of my personal teaching? Simple, I am the one who will polish their material, and I give every one of my students all the personal attention they NEED (this may NOT be all the personal attention they WANT, there is a difference.) In this manner, I am able to give ALL of my students, high and low ranks, the benefit of my experience. Some simply don't see it that way, and they SHOULD move on. It would be be in the best interest of all concerned. > At the very least an > instructor should receive the mutual respect of the > studio head. > When not even respect as a martial artist is being > given, it is definately time to move on. This sort of thing is like the chicken and the egg. Who is the one that shows lack of respect here? The instructor who is simply doing his best to give you the benefit of learning how each technique must be disected in order to learn its principles better, or the student who misunderstands his place in this process and become enraged when his instructor terminates the opportunity for whatever reason (which is his or her right and duty). Like Joshua's problem (of an earlier post), it can best be solved by sitting down with your Instructor before the situation gets out of hand. Perhaps rehashing the original intent of the exercise may come to the surface again, at which point the situation is better understood once again. As I said before, neither your case or Joshua's may have been like this scenario, but it gave me an opportunity to explain how some Masters work. I fully undestand that other school owners or Masters only have their own best interest at heart, and this post is by no means intended to defend their self-serving position. I have personally experienced a number of times where such student/assistants become arrogant and "forget" to give proper respect. This is often done because they don't fully appreciate the process or forget about the original intent of it altogether. In part, it is the result of the student actually improving because of the process, and perhaps becoming more arrogant with his or her newfound abilities. Whatever the reason, it is highly unlikely that a Master who has given a student such wonderful opportunity does not respect you. On the other hand, he may give the student an equal amount of respect he receives from the student. Whenever an Instructor does so, it is time to be truly honest with yourself and reevaluate your attitude. He may quietly be giving you a hint that you are losing the most important aspect of your training -- respect. In conclusion, I see that in Mr. Clark's case all worked out for the best. I had the priviledge to work with Master West and his wonderful wife this past weekend, and their love for the art is evident with every motion they make. Such love for the arts makes an Instructor a true Master, and you would be hard pressed to find a better Master to work with than JR West. Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Dee Damian Jones wrote <> As far as I know it runs through other Korean arts and the Japanese arts. My opinion is they are fine as long as it's not over the top. <> Yes <> The words Tang (kara) Soo (te) Do in Hanja in Red on the right (senior) end of the belt, and the phonetic approximation of Richards on the left (junior) side in hangul again red. I chose red text to honor the neh kong, weh yu concept of the central red line MDKTSD 4th dans wear, but since I am Moja Kwan TSD, I am a little different <> General opinions and perponderance of evidence...1st through 3rd dan gold or white stripes, typically gold lettering. Almost always the Kwan name and Student name. In the US the names are either double language english under korean, or the student name is in english. Wider than 2" typically reserved for 4th Dan and up. <> I'm pleased with mine. I also have a plain Rhino belt, and like the plain Rheemax belts. I think Rheemax even has an embroidery service? <> Good luck with your new belt... Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "jere-hilland" Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:16:25 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: He Young Kimm Books Philosophy of Masters is an excellent book. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:15:29 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #253 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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