From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #261 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 27 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 261 In this issue: the_dojang: Hot Licks... the_dojang: RE: Kido Hae business practices the_dojang: patch thanks the_dojang: Training the_dojang: Teachers the_dojang: Poomse Keumgang the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #260 the_dojang: $$ the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mary Braud Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:30:32 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Hot Licks... That would be Dan Hicks & His Hot Licks, 1971... I actually have the LP! Thanks for the reminder for me to dust all those old records off! :-) Mary - --------------------------------------------------- > From: Ken McDonough > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:53:20 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Fees= Show me the Money ? > P.S. For you real music trivia freaks, who did the song entitled, "Where's > the Money". Hint: Mid or early 1970's. Hint 2: Matches with "Hot Licks". ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:53:33 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Kido Hae business practices Dear McD: "...: Sounds awfully similarly to the World Kuk Sool Won business methods and practices. Or so I have been told. Note: I do not want to start any Flame Wars with Kuk Sool Won afficionados. Just sharing comments that were personally told to me by a former instructor out in California. Moreover, uncertain if this is accurate. ..." I am commenting to your post only because I had a recent exchange with the Kidohae regarding my membership. As I think I have shared with folks here I am organizing and training to take my 4th Dan test down the road a ways and recently renewed my membership with the Kidohae. I mentioned that I had considered testing under GM Seo and wondered how I would be assessed as a died-in-wool Hapkido person. So far I have been advised that this would not be a problem and that to keep my membership in good shape I need to be attending GM Seos' seminars (Next one in September, I think). Despite the similarities, I know that Kuk Sool and Hapkido are not identical. I also know that I have often wondered how an organization oversees authentification and management of over 30 Korean arts and styles while maintaining the integrity of each of the member arts. Perhaps I have not given this issue proper respect or consideration. I think I would like to ask anyone on the Net if they, too, have found themselves in a similar situation and how (if?) it was resolved to everyones' satisfaction. Like McD I am not interested in starting a flame war, here. But somehow this seems to speak to the heart of all that organizational stuff we were tossing around a while back, yes? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 8:29:11 PDT Subject: the_dojang: patch thanks Thanks to Rick and Dave for sending in a patch for the collection. PO Box 110841 Campbell, CA 95011-0841 Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:29:49 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Training Bruce writes: > My thought on this is that a lot of us upper-ranking belts need > more time with individuals of our own level if we are ever to take Hapkido > beyond where it is now, yes? Hello Bruce: I hope you heard me singing along with you:) Your suggestion to cooperate with other higher level practitioners is a sound one. Few schools have a full complement of students that are at the higher level; consequently, it is difficult for these practitioners to work to their full potential. Interested students who live within a reasonable distance from each other could have a great time working together, as long as no one forces doctrines or opinions on others. Cooperative training, without an agenda other than enjoying the arts, is something that is rare. I fully believe that the group training with JR can pull this off. Good luck, and go for it! Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:04:26 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Teachers Dana writes: > Teaching people to teach (instructor program not dependent upon reaching a > particular rank only) requires a curriculum, observation, and feedback. You > can't do that if you are not there. In my opinion, an instructor in > training is being trained and does not require fiscal compensation because > the head instructor is there in observation/feedback mode. Hi Dana: You hit the nail right on the head. We don't (hopefully) teach martial arts without a solid curriculum, and it is not possible to teach future Instructors without a solid curriculum. This is why the academic school system has Teachers College (where you incidentally PAY for your lessons). I fully expect to get a bag full of mail stating this is a poor comparison, because graduates from Teachers College have an opportunity to make money. I'm glad to report that the students who have gone trough my program have related their lessons to real life, and they have done very well with the information I gave them. I am as proud of them as any Dad could be! On the other hand, like JR and others, I have a drawer full of files from students who were ripped off, used, and abused. In fact, I went through a very similar situation myself (see another post by Mac in the same digest). The program I developed contains all the elements of "learning" you find in any academic program that results in certification, including exams and faillures. I don't know if it is similar to anyone else's program, because I have not run across anything like it so far. I am sure I am not the only one who believes that a Black Belt is not necessarily a "teacher", and I'm equally sure that there are other similar programs around. Some, like JRs method of "teaching MUCH more", may be a little less formal, but they are nevertheless effective. It is the TEACHING that makes the difference, and for that you need to BE there like we all seem to agree on. Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association BTW Master Mc Henry, I have not forgotten about my promise to you, just been very busy getting settled in my new home. ------------------------------ From: Dave Weller Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:59:05 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Poomse Keumgang >From: "T. Kennelly" >While comparing a video tape from one TKD organization to a book from >another I find that there are two different chamber positions for the arm >on moves 11, 14, 21, 24 santeul-makki. The video shows the chamber of the >arms on different sides of the body whereas the book show both arms >chambered on the same side of the body. >From: Ray Terry >The chamber is more with the waist & shoulders than the arms. In #11 the >left arm is a bit in front of the face as your waist & shoulders snap the >arms into the block. In #14 the right arm is more in front of the face. >There is a twist snapping action to the forearms/wrists as you execute >the block. >Ray Terry >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com >unsnipped< This is certainly not "official" ('bout as far from that as it gets). My instructor describes the chambering position of the hands "like you are grabbing a sack of rice off your shoulder with both hands." off the right shoulder for #11 & #24, and off the left shoulder for the other 2. Of course, as Mr. Terry says, the action comes mainly from the hips and shoulders because you are pivoting as you make the blocks. Also curious if other Keumgang practioneers do the turning elbow strikes (move 10,19,20,27 --i think those are the move numbers anyhow) "in the air" or "on the ground" Our instructor has told us either way is acceptable to him and I have seen the form done both ways at testing and in competition. that's my .00002¢ worth, of course subject to correction, modification, or condemnation. dave weller student wtf tkd "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: Thayne_Coffman@trilogy.com Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:04:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #260 >> I do not want to start any Flame Wars with Kuk Sool Won afficionados. Too late. ;-) >> Sounds awfully similarly to the World Kuk Sool Won business >> methods and practices. Or so I have been told. So, I'm not in to flame wars either, but I feel compelled to share what I know and think about this. I definitely don't have all the data because I don't teach outside our studio, but from limited conversations, my impression is that all that our Master gets from schools that his students are starting are the testing fees, because the instructors are only 2nd degree and their students still come to our studio to test. I've never asked specifically about tuition fees, but my impression was that those were paid to the lower-ranked instructor. Like you, I have no specific first-hand data. All I know is that I've never heard anyone from our studio make comments about feeling that it was unfair. I might ask around to get more data, or I might just wait until I'm in the situation and find out for myself. - - Thayne Coffman 1st dan KSW ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:38:09 PDT Subject: the_dojang: $$ > conversations, my impression is that all that our Master gets > from schools that his students are starting are the testing fees, As in gup -and- dan test fees? That would likely add up to be a very considerable sum... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:01:52 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #261 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.