From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #266 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 30 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 266 In this issue: the_dojang: Teaching an Old Dog (Hubby) New Tricks the_dojang: Re: Teaching Black Belts the_dojang: Re: Is not teaching irresponsible? the_dojang: RE: Teaching as an Option the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #265 the_dojang: Re: Evil, philosophy, and singing the_dojang: RE: Organization Stuff the_dojang: RE: Thanks, Illona the_dojang: hapkido bonding Re: the_dojang: RE: Organization Stuff the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "K T" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:43:28 +1000 Subject: the_dojang: Teaching an Old Dog (Hubby) New Tricks Finally a topic that I feel qualified to contribute to ... starting TKD when you're on the shady side of prime. (Actually probably the dark side but it looks shady from where I am.) >>What do you guys think? Would tkd be too high-impact? Is shotokan >>noticeably less so (I don't know much about it)? Note that he's not >>interested in doing olympic-style full contact sparring, just the more >>traditional aspects with possibly some light sparring. Donnla. << Ms Nic Gearailt My history in brief ... basketball until early twenties and then nothing until about 37. At the ripe old age of 37 I decided that basketball would be a good thing to get back into to keep the activity levels up. After only only half a dozen games I fell heavily shattering both my wrists. (Yep both wrists at once ... I looked like robocop for about 3 months.) At 39 I joined a gym and started going about 4 hours a week. At the ripe old age of 40 I took up TKD as well and do it 3 times a week. I'm now 42 and 5th gup ITF style. I have to say I don't think I was particularly well coordinated to start with ... but now ... well not too bad, at least I now I don't fall over in doing turning and reverse turning kicks. And on the fitness and flexibility front ... a lot better than 2 years ago (truth be known probably better than I've been in the last 10 years). As for sparring, I'll probably never see a competition ... but the sparring we do in class is a good workout (as long as I wear pads, the old shins they ain't what they used to be). Can't comment on the Karate angle ... but for me TKD is fitness in a fun package. Trust you find this of interest. Regards, Noel Doney _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:37:03 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Teaching Black Belts Bernard Maginnity wrote: . > >Dana suggested that 'no fiscal compensation' should be forthcoming to >Instructors in training. I have to disagree. Here in Oz there is >legislation in place which protects those in training, making it illegal to >train for a position or undergo induction without compensation. Bernard. While I question the reference to a fictional land, I'll briefly clarify. Except for the extremely rare circumstance that I do/did not actually teach class myself, I am on the floor observing "teachers in training" providing a curriculum framework for them to teach and providing direct feedback on performance, or to answer questions they may have [i.e., teaching]. They themselves also still get taught in their classes. Also, if they want an instructors certificate from me, they must pass the program [not all chose too]. If they teach on their own then, it is with my blessing and I do not cut into their $ unless they want services I can provide, but do not require. I hope you find that explanation a "horse of a different color!" "There's no place like home!" Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:53:01 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Is not teaching irresponsible? On Sat 28 Kerry wrote: > >Hmmm... surely you don't mean that a BB who does not teach is shirking >responsibilty? I take issue with that notion. There is plenty of >responsibility involved in being a BB through our daily actions, our >participation in such things as demos, fund-raisers and charitable >events,and our behavior around junior belts, just to name a very few. Kerry. First of all, no need to take issue with someone's opinion, it's obviously not your own! If I can play Devil's Advocate for a minute [and not to "choke your chain"], let me ask a couple of questions in this regard. What daily actions are you referring to? I would hope that such things as acting responsibly etc. are not restricted to black belts and most moral people would do such, as well as proper daily actions being behavior expected of all students, regardless of rank. Again, gups and parents help out to the best of their ability "in such things as demos, fund-raisers and charitable events" also, although black belts may have a special role. On could also assume that you would not be a black belt if your instructor did not like your behavior with lower ranks. Learning how to teach and teaching well is hard. You must not only look at the big picture, but make sure everyone is moving forward. It is a whole different game from being just a black belt student. I DO NOT consider non-teaching blackbelts "irresponsible," I just don't always consider them at the same knowledge level as those that do know how to teach. Again, only my 2 cents.....your mileage may differ! Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:09:20 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Teaching as an Option Dear Mike: "...Do you really WANT all of your black belts teaching? Personally, I don't want anyone teaching if they don't ENJOY teaching and are not GOOD AT teaching. IMO, nothing will dampen a student's enthusiasm more than being in a class taught by a person that isn't a good teacher. (Haven't we all been there at some time?) Big difference between being a good black belt technician and being a good teacher. Sometimes the skills are parallel and sometimes not...." Very well said. You also pointed out a piece that I left out of my post but is very important. When writing my post I came from the position that Mr. Head Instructor is requiring his candidates/students to teach in order to test. I should have also commented that there are those few (rare) individuals who are truly taken with the MA and want to garner every benefit and advantage they can from their training. These are folks who volunteer to teach a class or tutor students having difficulty and Gawd love 'em for their personal investment. I see this as very different from compelling a student to teach classes-sometimes in addition to the fact that they are paying tuition. Now, I don't want to get into some of the nuances of compensation (I think Master West made a comment about having a special arrangement for students who teach?). I see that as between the student and his teacher and its incumbent on both to "play nice". But first and foremost I think teaching classes for Mr. H.I. needs to be an option and not a requirement. I see way too much opportunity for exploitation or, at least, misuse. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:22:37 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #265 Illona wrote: << There are many paths on the martial arts ... and it is the instructor's job to help the student find their path and travel it. Not 'force' them to make a journey that isn't theirs to make just because 'they, the instructor' feel it is the one to make. >> With such a philosophy, I'm sure you can't avoid being a great teacher, Illona! ------------------------------ From: cspiller@e3mil.com Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 06:08:50 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Evil, philosophy, and singing <> >Personally, I don't think this is the proper forum for that continued discussion.< I’m afraid I have to disagree with you here. Philosophy and human nature are INHERENTLY bound up with the Martial Arts. I can’t tell you the number of times I have heard people say that MA’s are for the development of the whole person and not just about kicking and punching. But how can one understand human nature without studying philosophy? Bruce said: >Dear Chris: "...Don't worry, I've come to this conclusion after having been a counselor for about 4 years and having a degree in Psychology...." OK, but I agree with you only because we psychologists have to stick together. The scientist in me says that I cannot allow for supernatural agents and my only other cognitive option was "stupidity" (perhaps a viable option).< Bruce, it seems to me that psychology cannot allow for the supernatural because of its nature. It is (supposedly) a NATURAL science, although I would say that it certainly isn’t like chemistry or physics! It can’t account for the supernatural because that’s not its area of “expertise.” As for stupidity, well I have to say that in my experience that DOES account for a lot! ;-) >While my personal belief system allows for the personification of evil ("lucifer", "the devil", "evil spirits") and the Buddhist in me acknowledges that all action imparts Karma,< Let me ask you a question regarding Buddhism. I have read about Buddhism a little bit (even took an undergrad class on it back in the day) but there are a couple of things that I don’t have an answer to from a Buddhist point of view. WHY do people commit evil acts? I am not talking about actions that result UNWITTINGLY in an evil outcome (i.e., forgetting to check the rearview mirror before changing lanes and causing a car accident, for example). I mean something along the lines of knowing that what you will do will cause harm to someone (including even yourself) and doing it anyway). >the psychologist yearns for a world where if people just had one more piece of information they would naturally do the right thing. "... to dream the impossible dream.. (sing along with me, Rudy)..." :-) Best Wishes, Bruce< This view is basically that of “knowledge equals virtue” which some of the Greek philosophers held to. Unfortunately I have yet to see the majority of people demonstrate this proposition. To be sure there are people out there with a lot of natural virtue, but even they don’t do god all of the time. I tend to think that evil is a mystery. Please note: this does NOT mean you can’t explain it. It just means that you can’t FULLY explain it. By the way, maybe you, Rudy, and I could form a trio and take our song on the road ;) Taekwon, Chris "Every Experience of Beauty Points to Infinity" Hans Urs von Balthasar _______________________________________________________________ Get your Private, Anti-Spam, Free Email at http://e3mil.com Your Internet Home for Your Faith, Your Life, and Your World! ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:36:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Organization Stuff Dear Richard: Thanks for taking time to explain about how these pieces come together. I don't know about anybody else but it gets to be a real pain in the tail trying to keep these organizations straight. Just so I make sure that I have this straight let me double-check a couple of things. 1.) The Korean Hapkido organization is, in effect, a parent organization rather than a "sibling" of the National Hapkido Assn, yes? For the sake of credentialing, then, must a Hapkido practitioner (according to this particular arrangement) be a member of the NHA to approach the KHF for cert/lic.? As a member of the NHA ( and so credentialed) would applying to the KHF for credentialing (lic or certs) be redundant? 2.) For what I read in your response it sounds as though the KMAIA is a sort of sister organization to both KHF and the NHF and is more involved with professional development than MA competence per se or is there some overlap there as well? 3.) The American Dragon system is your more local commercial entity and that is different from the more national (?) KMAIA, right? While I am sure there is quite a bit over overlap among these various groups am I in the ballpark when I say that the KMAIA and ADS are more concerned with professional and commercial development and less to do with Hapkido technical competence while the NHA/KHF focuses more on Hapkido curriculum and technical accountability? I am sure you probably get these tedious organizational questions quite a bit but if you have been keeping up on current events here on the DD you will notice that the overwhelming numbers of personalities who have started their own organizations are exactly lining up in Rays' livingroom to answer questions about their efforts. Thanks, in advance for your attention. BTW: For people who were wondering about my efforts concerning accountability in MA organizations and specifically Korean organizations: Of the first five organizations to whom I wrote introductory letters soliciting organizational information I have heard nothing. One letter (to the International Kendo Fed - oversees the Korean Kumdo Assn) came back to me. The other four letters to the Korean Hapkido Federation, Korea KIDo Association, International Hapkido Assn and World Hapkido Federation have, as yet, not elicited responses. More to come. Best Wishes, Bruce W Sims www.midwesthapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:42:56 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Thanks, Illona Dear Illona: "...Hope I haven't offended anyone ... I just wanted to express how "I felt" on this subject..." I think you said it very well. You are now free to go pop one of those 10 y/o MA dwarfs on the top of the head. :-) BTW: You are right on about having to show those kids respect. Anyone who has seen some of those 8 or 10 y/o girls casually drop into full splits like it was nothing can't help but be respectful. Makes my crotch hurt just watching. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "mo :b" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:54:19 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: hapkido bonding hey everyone :) some members of Master Whalen's dojang are getting ready for a possible trip to Korea this fall thought it would be great to get an extra workout in Sunday mornings...at (yikes) 6 AM. so the few...the proud...the absolutely insane (you met most of us at the Wests' Mississippi seminar) went at a state park for some hapkido fun-in-the-sun. we were literally up with the birds (i had no idea they are that loud in the morning). and luckily for us Dunkin Donuts opens before the crack of dawn. after much coffee, laughs, and about 3 hours, we realized that we'd covered a lot of ground (no pun intended). stretching was difficult in the cold new england morning so the kicking was light...just your "basic" jumping off rocks and such. but we did a TON of breathing exercises and punch defenses. and managed to wonder why we wore our white doboks to get thrown on grass and dirt (still haven't figured that one out). all-in-all it was great and we felt truly energized for the rest of the day. i can't wait until next sunday :) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 7:00:12 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: Organization Stuff > BTW: For people who were wondering about my efforts concerning > accountability in MA organizations and specifically Korean organizations: > Of the first five organizations to whom I wrote introductory letters > soliciting organizational information I have heard nothing. One letter (to > the International Kendo Fed - oversees the Korean Kumdo Assn) came back to > me. The other four letters to the Korean Hapkido Federation, Korea KIDo > Association, International Hapkido Assn and World Hapkido Federation have, > as yet, not elicited responses. More to come. Hmmm, did you also send them a list of questions? If so, perhaps that is why they did not feel the need to respond. Just a thought... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 7:58:40 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #266 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.