From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #267 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 1 May 2001 Vol 08 : Num 267 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: hapkido bonding the_dojang: RE: Buddhist perspective the_dojang: RE: Organization Letters the_dojang: Teaching Kids & Teachers the_dojang: Allison's 12th Annual Hapkido Sun Moo Kwan Seminar the_dojang: Middle-aged martial artists the_dojang: Memberships the_dojang: RE: Whose opinion is it, anyway? the_dojang: Don't Let Poor Business Close Your School the_dojang: Looking forward the_dojang: Loyalty the_dojang: Catch the fish or give them a rod? the_dojang: Instructor Responsibilities the_dojang: the_dojang: Oz the_dojang: Ho from CO ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:58:50 Subject: the_dojang: Re: hapkido bonding "mo :b" wrote: Wrote on his fun morning workout! As a funny side note. I've done this before and occassionally with the group in loose street-clothes. One time when the sparring/throwing/ect. section was over, we all bowed out and noticed three police cars across the street watching us!! Hey, were a club, not a gang!! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:48:22 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Buddhist perspective Dear Chris: "...but there are a couple of things that I don't have an answer to from a Buddhist point of view. WHY do people commit evil acts?..." This is a tough question and one that I only bump into about once every --- day. It's right up there with why do "bad" things happen to "good" people. Since you ask me as a Buddhist the answer actually becomes very simple. Had you asked from another position I am afraid I would need to take up a helluva lot more of Rays' hard-drive. Buddhism holds that there is no inherent good or inherent evil as such. Poopie happens and people who have not worked to find a more transcendent Path automatically start categorizing things into dichotomies such as "good", "bad", "right" and "wrong", etc. For example, during the Cambodian Holocaust the world identified terrible evil in the mass killings while the Khymer Rouge guerillas only saw such slaughter as a necessary inconvenience to purge their society. A Buddhist would seek to experience the event and understand it without being controlled by it. This is loosely identified as the Middle Path and is supported by adhering to ones' practice and abiding by the 8 Fold Path. BTW: The Eight Fold Path is NOT the Buddhist "10 Commandments" as is often stated. Commandments carry an injunctive suggestion meaning "thou shalt" or "shalt not" and the implication of some un-natural consequence (usually a reward or punishment) to follow. In Buddhism one follows their practice and the 8 Fold Path not because something good or bad will happen but because it is the natural order of things that people seek to come out of the best part of themselves. Now, there is the matter of Karma and perhaps this bears some comment as well. All of a persons' actions carry some sort of consequence. People often get into "good karma" or "bad karma" but then we're right back to dichotomous thinking. Karma isn't good or bad. Its just the natural result of what we do. I like to use the idea of a light bulb which burns brightly until the switch is turned off (parinirvana--- death of the physical body). Maybe circumstances are such that the one bulb was too bright for conditions and the result is that the bulb is changed for a weaker bulb or even a colored bulb (karma as influential agent for next existence). The electricity comes back on and there is now a different result. It's a pretty crude analogy but it bears some truth to the matter. Sometimes karma is a bit more immediate. The fella that attacks me will need to accept the natural consequences of his choice which may include having his shoulder separated. Perhaps he will learn from this and seek to come out of a better part of himself. On the other hand, perhaps I decide to use my MA skills to bully and intimidate and am finally publically humiliated by being subdued by a couple of North Chicagos' finest and having the event noted in the local newspaper. Natural consequences. Sorry if this turned out to be a bit longer than I originally intended. I, too, think that this venue can support these sorts of questions but I am sure that's because I believe that such material is an integral part of MA training and has been in Korean tradition for about 1600 years. I know not everyone feels comfortable discussing such things let along teaching them to students but I honestly believe that is a major portion of what we committed to do when we decided to not only practice but teach MA. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:54:07 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Organization Letters Dear Ray: "...Hmmm, did you also send them a list of questions? If so, perhaps that is why they did not feel the need to respond..." I wanted to keep things pretty uniform for all the organizations so if there were any questions they were probably of the type that asks about membership and fees and such. I can pull out the disc with the letter on it and double-check. I am figuring that 30 days should be enough time to get some sort of answer. Is that a bit optimistic? Bruce ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Teaching Kids & Teachers Last week I got all of my 5&6 year olds in DoBohks. The excitement and enthusiasm had me believing they could kick booty . The reward of working with children is a student typically devoid of a huge ego and 20 years of pre-conceived notions. And if you think you really understand your art form, try explaining just the gross motor skills to a 5 year old. As I am learning from my 16 month old, children make the best teachers. I would trade any of my stripes, certificates, etc. for every time I get to catch a "mini-mugger" sized player doing something right . By the time they go through my sieve of experiences, I'm sure they will be mature enough to be black-belts . Second thread on leading/teaching; Everyone I promote is expected to be able to share what they have learned with a junior rank. Educators are indeed a rare breed. I tend to do supervised co-teaching with my senior belts to ensure that they could teach an entire class as a black-belt. As far as assistant instructors, I've found, given the 3 to 6 years to make Cho Dan, the true educators will have volunteered themselves long ago. Just be sure to compensate them fairly. Now as 1st through 3rd Dans are traditionally considered "student dans", IMHO it is ok for folks to train hard, support special events and tournaments, and set an example when on the floor without being a full time martial artist. I would ask the 4th Dan "Master Instructor" and above what need of rank or tittle beyond 3rd dan do they have if they do not plan to teach? Especially since all the material for 4th through 6th is available through seminar, video, and textbooks. Given that someone knows my opinion on the matter if after 9 years as a black-belt under me, they had no intention of teaching, I can only assume we would both be comfortable with them continuing to train as my 3rd Dan student, I would be very comfortable with that. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Allison's 12th Annual Hapkido Sun Moo Kwan Seminar Dear List, I am proud to say I am wearing my surviror t-shirt from Master Allison's 12th annual mat kissing party. About 60 or so of us nuts thought we could keep up with Master Allison teaching Hapkido for 6 hours on a Saturday . Guests included Master Instructor Mike Kuns from Texas, and senior blackbelts from Kempo, Tae Kwon Do, and Tang Soo Do. Everyone who wanted to learn about Sun Moo Kwan Hapkido was welcome and treated with respect. Master Allison was assisted by 7 of his direct 3rd dans and several more blackbelts, for all us kick/punch guys that might be struggling. He also offered "off the mat" versions for folks who chose not to air wheel/circle fall for 6 hours . I was able to add to my Dan bong skills, Ji Pangi skills, advanced kicking and a great set of "techniques from a disadvantaged position." Yes, this is a plug and hope to see you there next year. For more info check out www.hapkidosunmookwan.com Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards HKD SMK 4th Gup __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "John Franich" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:32:59 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Middle-aged martial artists Donnla Nic Gearailt's asked for advice about her husband taking up tkd or Shotokan in his mid-thirties. I began Tang Soo Do training at the age of 43 after many years (read decades) of doing no strenuous activity at all. I'm now 48 and just endured my first black belt test last Friday. I was the oldest student testing by 15 years, but I think that I passed. I sure hope so. I REALLY don't want to do that again any time soon. If anyone on the list has been through a test with Master Jim Debaca of Santa Rosa, CA, our regional director, you may know what I mean. As if the test wasn't enough, we had a 2 1/2 hour clinic the next day. Sheesh. Even the teenagers were exhausted. Anyway, my point is that I don't think that you are ever too old to begin training. I am not the oldest student in our dojang. An E Dan friend who was killed in a tragic car accident last month took his first black belt test at age 50. A fifth gup student in my class is recovering from a recent mastectomy and is in her mid-fifties. A fourth gup student in my class is a man who began training at 61. When he first started he could barely kick above his ankles, let alone his knees. He lost over 50 pounds and had heart bypass surgery during his first year of training. Most of his kicks still don't make it to waist level, but he keeps at it and I have no doubt that he will be able to attain his personal goals in tsd. So my advice is to get your husband to the dojang. With good instruction and the right mental attitude he can achieve his personal goals. John Franich (Rank undetermined. Waiting patiently for the results.) ------------------------------ From: "hackworth" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:52:10 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Memberships Bruce wrote: "1.) The Korean Hapkido organization is, in effect, a parent organization > rather than a "sibling" of the National Hapkido Assn, yes? For the sake of > credentialing, then, must a Hapkido practitioner (according to this > particular arrangement) be a member of the NHA to approach the KHF for > cert/lic.? As a member of the NHA ( and so credentialed) would applying to > the KHF for credentialing (lic or certs) be redundant? > 2.) For what I read in your response it sounds as though the KMAIA is a > sort of sister organization to both KHF and the NHF and is more involved > with professional development than MA competence per se or is there some > overlap there as well? > 3.) The American Dragon system is your more local commercial entity and > that is different from the more national (?) KMAIA, right? While I am sure > there is quite a bit over overlap among these various groups am I in the > ballpark when I say that the KMAIA and ADS are more concerned with > professional and commercial development and less to do with Hapkido > technical competence while the NHA/KHF focuses more on Hapkido curriculum > and technical accountability? > > I am sure you probably get these tedious organizational questions quite a > bit but if you have been keeping up on current events here on the DD you > will notice that the overwhelming numbers of personalities who have started > their own organizations are exactly lining up in Rays' livingroom to answer > questions about their efforts. Thanks, in advance for your attention. Membership in the NHA is no more redundant than membership in the USTU. They are the national representative organizations in the US for thier particular martial art. Is having a USTU license worthless compared to the KKW? The Korea Hapkido Federation is very well represented in the US. Anyone wanting to affiliate with them can easily do so through one of the representatives. They are very suspicious of individuals who would attempt to by-pass the national representatives for membership and certification. You should contact the US rep. at hapkidomasterle@aol.com for the fastest reply. The KMAIA is more of a fraternal organization for instructors. Working hard on improving instructor development programs and cross training. The NHA is more involved with the technical development. The KHF doesn't have an office in the US because they are a Korean organization. They do however have national representatives. The American Dragon Systems and American Dragon Martial Arts Academies are martial arts businesses that I own. I make no bones about it. I don't believe that any instructor teaches only for the money, however: you cannot teach without it. Providing a full time, professional state-of-the-art facility is not cheap. We do not apologize for charging tuition. I qualified master instructor deserves a professional salary that reflects the amount of work and education that they have earned. I do not have the luxury of a day job to fall back on. I am a full time professional martial arts instructor. Richard Hackworth http://khfhapkido.tripod.com ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:19:50 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Whose opinion is it, anyway? > From: "Dana Vaillancourt" > Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:53:01 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Is not teaching irresponsible? > > On Sat 28 Kerry wrote: > > > >Hmmm... surely you don't mean that a BB who does not teach is shirking > >responsibilty? I take issue with that notion. There is plenty of > >responsibility involved in being a BB through our daily actions, our > >participation in such things as demos, fund-raisers and charitable > >events,and our behavior around junior belts, just to name a very few. > > Kerry. > > First of all, no need to take issue with someone's opinion, it's obviously > > not your own! > Don't take issue with someone else's opinion because those opinions are obviously not my own? What else would I take issue with? I don't follow the reasoning here. Everybody has the right to form and express their own opinions, but that doesn't mean those opinions are well-founded, and they are certainly open to disagreement and discussion. > If I can play Devil's Advocate for a minute [and not to > "choke your chain"], let me ask a couple of questions in this regard. > What > daily actions are you referring to? I would hope that such things as > acting > responsibly etc. are not restricted to black belts and most moral people > would do such, as well as proper daily actions being behavior expected of > all students, regardless of rank. > And I would hope the same. But just like LEOs, elected officials, preachers, etc I think our behavior as BBs is more subject to scrutiny and criticism. Like it or not the general public still regards the BB in somewhat of an icon status, bigger than life if you will; not just your average Joe ( see disclaimer ). That does place a little more responsibility on us. And I think this applies to all our daily actions from not stealing from petty cash to not chewing gum with our mouths open. I was, as I said, just mentioning a few examples. > Again, gups and parents help out to the > best of their ability "in such things as demos, fund-raisers and > charitable > events" also, although black belts may have a special role. > Never said the gup levels didn't, and it's great when they do. See above. > On could also > assume that you would not be a black belt if your instructor did not like > your behavior with lower ranks. > This may be ideal, but well, an assumption is an assumption, and I do make my share. 'Nuff said. > Learning how to teach and teaching well is hard. You must not only look at > > the big picture, but make sure everyone is moving forward. It is a whole > different game from being just a black belt student. > I wholeheartedly agree. I would add that the newbie teacher has the burden of understanding and passing on the philosophy of their teacher. Not necessarily an easy task. > I DO NOT consider non-teaching blackbelts "irresponsible," I just don't > always > consider them at the same knowledge level as those that do know how to > teach. > Whoops. I read the implication that the knowledge required to teach is somehow "better" than other knowledge gained through MA. It's just different. If you're referring to the deeper understanding one hopefully gains of the MA (or any subject) by teaching it, then I agree. Of course, I couldn't let you go without once again taking issue with your opinion. ;) > Again, only my 2 cents.....your mileage may differ! > Certainly worth more than 2 cents... > Dana > > Regards, Kerry WTF TKD Disclaimer : No disrespect was intended to persons named Joe, nor should it be implied that anyone named Joe is only average. I myself know some above-average Joes. Indeed, some of my best friends are Joes. ------------------------------ From: "hackworth" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:07:43 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Don't Let Poor Business Close Your School Attention Instructors: Don't Let Poor Business Close Your School An Explosive Course Guiding The Path To Martial Arts Success! Certification programs bring knowledge, but rarely prepare you to establish professional fees, set goals and financial projections, generate a consistant stream of students to find the career you hoped for. This powerful 12-hour course helps intructors create careers they love as they master true secrets of Martial Arts School Success. The Benefits Of A Career In Martial Arts Instructing Are Without Limit: Make Your Own Hours * Do What You Love, Love What You Do! Create Empowering Relationships * Thrill People and Get Paid For It! Achieve an Income In Line With Medical and Legal Professionals Get Paid For Your Passion! Register for the Profits Course Now! 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For only $49, take your life in an exciting new direction, one filled with reward. Call to register. June 22, 2001 Sep 7, 2001 Feb 22, 2002 Hackworth's Professional Secrets Have Brought Success and Lucrative Careers to Hundreds! He writes for numerous publications including Taekwondo Times, Martial Arts World and Martial Arts Professionals Magazine. He has appeared on over 100 TV and radio shows. Since 1995 he's remained committed to helping martial arts professionals find success and establish highly paid professional positions. His seminars have been conducted nation wide for the martial arts elite. ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:21:16 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Looking forward Dear Mr. Sims, I am sorry my whining about whining brought back difficult memories. Your post generated the following random thoughts. They may bring you a smile, or cause you pause. 1) Pissing contests are usually won by the guy with height advantage . . . unless you know what to do with nitrates, then the bottom is best! 2) Being at the top of a pyramid is simply standing on a fancy burial mound . . . and that is only valuable if it contains the bones of your enemies. 3) As our GM's age - we become the leaders . . . ready or not, that time is here! 4) Only when we are the leaders, should we make the rules. 5) Only the rules we were willing to follow should be the rules we institute. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:32:20 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Loyalty >Perhaps I am the exception. Neal Konecky< Dear Mr. Konecky, For you to recognize that there is always another side identifies you as being one of the exceptions. Getting in the Way, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "K T" Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:59:16 +1000 Subject: the_dojang: Catch the fish or give them a rod? Mr Sims I've read your views on cheap labour and not everyone being a teacher etc. and for the most part I don't doubt that there is probably more than just an element of truth in your statements. (Particularly not everyone being a teacher, I had some friends that trained for teaching and really should have chosen some other vocation.) A question though ... didn't you find that when you first started teaching that you discovered or perhaps rediscovered exactly what your feet / hands / body had been doing on auto pilot for so long? I'm still in colour belts but I can most closely relate to when I trained for high school teaching. For years I'd been ploughing through and regurgitating chemical equations, mathematical formulae and physics theory for exams and it wasn't until I actually had to teach someone else that the things that I took for granted, as inherent truths, became clear. It was if a light switch had been thrown. Did you not see the kicks and punches you'd practiced for so long from a new angle when teaching? So I suppose what I'm asking is, perhaps whilst you may not have particular people teach forever more, you could use the teaching experience as a learning experience. An open question to the other instructors, was this not your experience when first teaching? Thanking you in advance. Regards, Noel Doney _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ From: Hottstuff5344105@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:22:40 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Instructor Responsibilities Dear DD members: I have come up with the following list of what I feel are the basic responsibilities of an instructor. Please add your ideas to this list. To Educate To Influence To Learn from the past To Direct To Maximize the present To Design the future To Market Your Art To Grow With Integrity Sincerely, Richard Hackworth www.pbms4me.com ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 04:17:34 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Chris wrote: > By the way, maybe you, Rudy, and I could form a trio and take our song on the > road ;) Hi Chris: If you had ever heard me sing, you would not doubt reconsider that suggestion:) I'm all for the road trip though, as long as we can train. Rudy ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:24:17 Subject: the_dojang: Oz Sorry Mr. Maginnity. So Oz is an actual place downunda! I have to stop reading all these fictions. You know, those "true histories of the martial arts!" Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 7:21:08 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Ho from CO Hello from Colorado. Had fun teaching in the martial arts mecca of Loveland last night. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #267 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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