From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #271 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 2 May 2001 Vol 08 : Num 271 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Blocks and Parries Stuff the_dojang: Re: Dayton, Ohio the_dojang: Re: Cincy to Dayton to Columbus the_dojang: 8 Fold Path, 10 Commandments, Buddhism, and Evil the_dojang: TKD Schools in Kent,WA area the_dojang: USTU Certification the_dojang: Cost to Set Up Dojang= Mr. Hilland the_dojang: 4th Annual Summer Hapkido Symposium Re: the_dojang: USTU Certification the_dojang: dobok info the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 09:14:30 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Blocks and Parries Stuff Dear Charles: I think you make a very important point. I am not sure about all this "secrecy" stuff when it comes to the hyung. Maybe there is something to support it, maybe not. I just don't know. Makes for good reading, though. What I was attracted to in you post was your comment about your attack ("...Let me do a 45 degree front leg round kick to your thigh as fast and as hard as I can, and you do the proper fold, stance and blocking motion.....hmmm..") I think way too many people execute blocks only from the "harder" interpretation. Now, before anyone starts tuning-up on me, let me say that I, too, learned hard blocks, with hand closed, arm locked-in and hips engaged. Nothing wrong with this and I have had occasion to use almost exactly such a rising block to fend off a piece of falling machinery at an earlier employer. However, I think I have had my eyes opened broadly to my options in Hapkido when such blocks are softened a bit so as to allow for a conversion into some trapping/grappling/throwing etc. Even "soft blocks" that I have seen in TKD and Karate are executed with a distinct rigidity which I have found to impair a conversion from a defensive posture to one of offense. I would be willing to let you wail on/at my thigh but I most probably wouldn't use the standard locked-out TKD lower block. I have not had much use for JKD perse, but IMHO the use of parries is indicative of a higher level of practice. It takes a while to master them, but I think the options are greater. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:28:16 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Dayton, Ohio << Not even close. Dayton is in central Ohio. >> Daytonians would be surprised to know that. : ) Dayton is in western central Ohio at best, and is considered to be in western Ohio by most who think about it at all. It's only about 50 miles north of Cincinnati on I-75. Sally ------------------------------ From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:31:38 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Cincy to Dayton to Columbus Ray wrote << I even bicycled once from Cincinnati through Dayton to Columbus. >> Dayton to Columbus is almost a two-hour drive at 70-or-so mph so this is beyond impressive! ------------------------------ From: cspiller@e3mil.com Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 07:44:40 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: 8 Fold Path, 10 Commandments, Buddhism, and Evil I had asked: >>"...but there are a couple of things that I don't have an answer to from a Buddhist point of view. WHY do people commit evil acts?..."<< To which Bruce said: >Buddhism holds that there is no inherent good or inherent evil as such. Poopie happens and people who have not worked to find a more transcendent Path automatically start categorizing things into dichotomies such as "good", "bad", "right" and "wrong", etc. For example, during the Cambodian Holocaust the world identified terrible evil in the mass killings while the Khymer Rouge guerillas only saw such slaughter as a necessary inconvenience to purge their society. A Buddhist would seek to experience the event and understand it without being controlled by it.< Bruce, this is interesting, but what happens is we end up with a massive begging of the question. If the Khmer Rouge were trying to purge their society we have to ask “from what?” Purging something is inherently bound up with making it pure, better, GOOD. It seems (at least to me) that the Khmer were, in fact, working for (what they perceived to be) good. >This is loosely identified as the Middle Path and is supported by adhering to ones' practice and abiding by the 8 Fold Path. BTW: The Eight Fold Path is NOT the Buddhist "10 Commandments" as is often stated. Commandments carry an injunctive suggestion meaning "thou shalt" or "shalt not" and the implication of some un-natural consequence (usually a reward or punishment) to follow.< I have heard this analogy, too. However, I have to disagree with your description of the 10 Commandments. The idea that they are somehow linked with unnatural consequences is really a pretty modern phenomenon. They have traditionally been understood as being an explication of the Natural Law. The Natural Law is inherently bound up in Human Nature. Following the Natural Law is how we fulfill our Human Nature. The end result (rewards or what have you) are natural consequences to our actions. Likewise, NOT following the Natural Law brings about natural consequences as well. Now, one might argue that since the Natural Law is bound up in morality then it is all relative. However, this is an untenable position. If EVERYTHING is relative then there are absolutes after all ;). Likewise, defying the Natural Law does not mean it doesn’t exist. It’s kind of like if I went to the top of a tall building and jumped off. Would I have defied the Law of Gravity? No. I would have DEMONSTRATED the Law of Gravity. LOL! >In Buddhism one follows their practice and the 8 Fold Path not because something good or bad will happen but because it is the natural order of things that people seek to come out of the best part of themselves.< Exactly. And this is what I have read before. But if we are seeking out what is BEST in ourselves then we are seeking out the good. Even if the “best” is equated with the “natural” it still is something that is valued and is therefore good. >Sorry if this turned out to be a bit longer than I originally intended. I, too, think that this venue can support these sorts of questions but I am sure that's because I believe that such material is an integral part of MA training and has been in Korean tradition for about 1600 years. I know not everyone feels comfortable discussing such things let along teaching them to students but I honestly believe that is a major portion of what we committed to do when we decided to not only practice but teach MA. Best Wishes, Bruce< I didn’t mind the length at all. Frankly, I find philosophy fascinating and it annoys me that many Martial Artists give it lip service but can’t come up with anything more profound than “It’s all relative” or something equally “deep. Taekwon, Chris "Every Experience of Beauty Points to Infinity" Hans Urs von Balthasar _______________________________________________________________ Get your Private, Anti-Spam, Free Email at http://e3mil.com Your Internet Home for Your Faith, Your Life, and Your World! ------------------------------ From: "Mike Devich" Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 08:32:28 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: TKD Schools in Kent,WA area Does anybody know of one or more TKD schools in the Kent, WA area. I have a student that will be there over the summer and would like to work out there if possible. I would also like to know the address, ph#, and affiliation. *if possible. thank you mmd ------------------------------ From: "Frank Clay" Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:31:39 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: USTU Certification To those DD members who are members of the USTU, Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we just have a post about the USTU no longer requiring Kukkiwon certification to attend events? I find that interesting as the VTA, Virginia's branch of the USTU, indicated to me, yet once again, that in order to attend the referee's training course, you must be Kukkiwon certified, and that USTU DOES require this. That came from Mrs. Robinson, the VTA referee's chairman's wife, and she is in fact a dojang owner.... So either USTU is doing one thing but publishing another, or they are not requiring of its member agencies. Any suggestions on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated. Frank Welcome to visit Shaolin Disciple's Site at http://shaolintemple.yeah.net ____________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com. ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 08:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Cost to Set Up Dojang= Mr. Hilland Mr. Hilland: You noted your new school. Would it be impolite to ask what the start up fees were to establish the school. Hit me privately if you prefer. Re: Cost for rentals, gym equipment and so forth. Thanks, Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:43:19 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: 4th Annual Summer Hapkido Symposium I would like to invite Digest members to attend our 4th Annual Symposium held in Omaha, Nebraska July 28-29, 2001. Topics covered will include: Children's Ground Grappling Leg Trapping and Kicking Defenses Defensive Knife Defensive Stick Combat Cane Women's Self Defense Knife Disarms Introduction to Ground Defense Intermediate Ground Defense Advanced Ground Defense Police Defensive Tactics Instruction Anybody wanting additional information may ask via the digest or by e-mailing me directly at: mrowe@cca.sitel.net Michael Rowe ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 9:25:28 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: USTU Certification > not requiring of its member agencies. Any suggestions on how to > handle this would be greatly appreciated. Why not just call the USTU and ask? Their phone is given at the end. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:11:51 PDT Subject: the_dojang: dobok info Info on the dobok from the KTA. Interesting to note the importance of '3' in the Korean culture. Ray - --------------------------------------------------------------------- In the beginning of Taekwondo training, the practitioner encounters the tobok and learns ettiquette from the Sabomnim. The tobok is a special clothing for training the mind and body in which the spirit of Korea and the centuries-old tradition is alive. So it is called a "handobok". The tobok consists of trousers, upper garment and belt, of which is called "hanbul", The tobok has a similarity with traditional Korean clothes "hanbok". The origin of the hanbok is not known. There are, however records that shows the use of costumes in the period of Shilla(Samkuk Sagi), Kaya(Samkuk Yusa), and Koguryo-Paekche-Shilla periods (Saso, China). It is written in the "Koryo Tokyong" by Sukyong of early China that "people in the Konguryo Kingdom wear white costumes with black silk belts around the waist." It seems that the white costumes could be daily clothes for the Koguryo people. It also seems that the long upper garment and trousers must have been the same type of cloth that were found on the wall paintings in the tombs of the three kingdoms. Taekwondo tobok which is similar to the traditional Korean clothing in the method of making, has three kids of sapes : circle(O), square(Up), and triangle(!b). The waist line of the uniform is circular shape, the cuffs square and the hip area triangular. The upper garment is made according to the same manner. It seems that tobok which is quite different from common clothing has a tradition of comservatism, and therefore, it is reasoned that the tobok that Kokuryo people used to wear must be quite similiar to the one that people during the Tangun-choson used to wear(BC37-AD668). It also seems that Ch'oesonin of Kokuryo and Kunson-hwarang of Shilla were from the same tradition of Tangun-choson and that Kukjarang of Tanlgun-Chonson became the ch'oesonin of Kokuryo and Hwarang of shilla. "Won(O), symbolizes the heaven, "Bang(Up), the earth, and "Kak(!b)"the man. The circle denotes the heaven, the square the earth and the triangle the man. The three symbols are the foundation of the universe(Samilshingo). The traditional Korean costumes are made based on the three symbols, and the symbols transform into the unity of the three called "han." The numeric concept of the Ch'onbugyong, which contains the principles of the heaven as one, the earth as two, and the man as three, brought the complete theoretical background for the formation of the traditional Korean costumes. From these conclusions, it can be reasoned that tobok has the same historical records of transformation as the traditional Korean costume has had. According to the theory of the "Yin"and "Yang", the man is the small universe, trousers which is Yin the earth, upper garment which is Yang the heaven, and belt the man himself, which stems from the supplies to the every aspect of the life of Koreans including in the production of all different sorts of costumes. Tobok and hanbok have the form of no beginning and no ending and it is quite difficult to conclude that the methods of making them were designed by one person's idea. There is some historical proof that shown the history. One example is from the article of the Choson daily Newspaper on the day 18th of April in 1990. It says that a Japanese female professor discovered a 400 year old Ch'onik Chollae p'um-male costume used during the period of Choson dynasty. At the beginning the tobok were made only in white color. In 1970, the division was made between the uniform for the under black belt and the black belt. The tobok has a V-neck shape. the p'um uniform has red-black stripes along the neck and the tan uniform only a black stripe. The white color in the uniform symbolises the background of the universe. According to the philosophy of the Korean tradition, the origin of the universe is the oneness which pronounced in Korean as Han. Han stems from the color of white. The white is the essence of the universe in Korean belief. The reason of the V-neck is to reduce the uncomfortableness of the previous traditional uniform which would be loosen too often during the practice. The V-neck uniform looks neat and is convenient to wear. Tobok is not only a costume for daily practice in Tojang but also a competition cloth for national level as well as the Olympic Game. The philosophical significance of the tobok is in keeping it clean and having proper respect and etiquette toward it. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:14:53 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #271 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.