From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #284 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 9 May 2001 Vol 08 : Num 284 In this issue: the_dojang: language the_dojang: throwing out students for "insufficient progress"? the_dojang: UFC vs. WWF...Let's Be Careful the_dojang: RE: Mastr McHenry's Video Forms the_dojang: kukkiwon numbers Re: the_dojang: kukkiwon numbers the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 7:50:57 PDT Subject: the_dojang: language Language All Koreans speak and write the same language, which has been a decisive factor in forging their strong national identity. Koreans have developed several different dialects in addition to the standard used in Seoul. However, the dialects, except for that of Jeju-do province, are similar enough for native speakers to understand without any difficulties. Linguistic and ethnological studies have classified the Korean language into the Ural-Altaic language group, along with Turkish, Hungarian, Finnish, Mongolian, Tibetan and Japanese. The Korean alphabet, called Hangeul, was created by a group of scholars under the patronage of King Sejong the Great during the 15th century. Before its creation, only a relatively small percentage of the population could learn the Chinese characters due to their difficulty. In attempting to invent a Korean writing system, King Sejong and his scholars looked to several writing systems known to them at the time, such as Chinese old seal characters, the Uighur script and the Mongolian scripts. The system that they came up with, however, is predominantly based upon their phonological studies. Above all, they developed a theory of tripartite division of the syllable into initial, medial and final phonemes, as opposed to the bipartite division of traditional Chinese phonology. Hangeul which consists of 10 vowels and 14 consonants, can be combined to form numerous syllabic groupings. It is simple, yet systematic and comprehensive, and is considered one of the most scientific writing systems in the world. Hangeul is easy to learn and write, which has greatly contributed to Korea's high literacy rate and advanced publication industry. ------------------------------ From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:40:25 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: throwing out students for "insufficient progress"? I'd like to ask the good folks on this list about a situation that has developed concerning an acquaintance of my husband's and his martial arts (not tkd) club. Recently my husband was asked to stop training with his martial arts club because it was felt that he risked injury, wasn't making much progress, was a bit too old etc (you may remember I posted here last week asking if it would be a good idea for him to take up tkd). Now, another student from his club, who has been training for 4 years, has also been asked to leave. The reason? His instructor feels he won't make it to the next grade any time soon and so has decided to show him the door. Now, I always thought that one should progress at one's own pace, and that not grading one year should not mean being expelled from the art (there are no other schools in the area that practice this art). The student in question is not lazy and doesn't skip classes or shirk practice. Do you guys often show a student the door if he or she is not grading often enough? Is this a way of pushing the student to excell, or prodding them a bit? Incidentally the student in question didn't get any prior warning that this could happen. I'd be interested to hear what you think. (Personally, I think it's rather unfair. But maybe there's a different perspective in which it makes sense). Donnla. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Computer Laboratory, New Museums Site, Graduate Student Pembroke St., Cambridge CB2 3QG, U.K. tel: +44-1223-334619 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~dbn20/ "An eyelash! How could you be so careless!" - Jude Law, Gattaca ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 10:13:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: UFC vs. WWF...Let's Be Careful Well, I haven't posted in a while, but this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart... "How many people believe that the UFC is more “real” than the WWF?" In Japan, there's a very fine line between a match that is a legitimate "shoot", and one that is a "work". Basically, irregardless of whether it's a shoot or a work...the fighters are still beating the ever-living hell out of each other. This is in stark contrast to American "works" (such as what we see in the WWF) where both "fighters" are making every effort to protect each other, and no real violence is taking place. However, in Japan the only diference is that the outcome (who wins and who loses) is predetermined...the kicks, punches, and chokes are still real. This is a difficult concept for some people to understand. Also confusing is the overlap that we see (primarily in Japan) between NHB-type fighting, and what westerners might define as "pro rasslin". The now defunct UWFI comes to mind as a good example. These fights were made to resemble "shoot" style matches, but the outcomes were pre-determined, and the "violence" was watered down just enough to protect the fighters (although knockouts happened from time-to-time). The Japanese fight fans (for the most part) understood the nature of these matches...bottom line, the Japanese don't CARE if a fight is a "work" as long as it's entertaining. A more recent example is the "Pride" fighting tournament in Japan, that in many ways has supplanted the UFC as the world's premiere NHB fighting contest. Lending even more confusion is the fact that the earlier shows actually had "worked" matches on the same card as true NHB matches. More recently the Pride event has moved toward 100% legit matches with no predetermined outcome...but the "stigma" (at least in the eyes of some western fight fans) remains. Another fact is that many fighters drift between the world of true NHB, and "works" (trust me...the worked matches pay more money). NHB champions such as Don Frye, Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, Ken Shamrock, Kazushi Sakuraba, and Bas Rutten have all done worked matches in Japan. Some of these works were shoot style (made to resemble real NHB fighting), and others (Don Frye is a good example) were pure over-the-top "pro rasslin" style matches. Recently, the famous Antonio Inoki put on a "pro rasslin" type show that included Shamrock, Rutten, Coleman, and Renzo Gracie (that's right...RENZO GRACIE). Kazushi Sakuraba is probably the best example of a fighter that has seamlessly transitioned between the worlds of "shoots" and "works". "Sak" started his career as a freestyle wrestler, and was even good enough to earn a spot as an alternate on the Japanese Olympic team. Sak later moved into the world of "works" by training and fighting under the UWFI banner as a shootfighter. Sak also performs as a masked pro wrestler (fans know him as Super Strong Machine) in true "pro rasslin" matches (I think with the New Japan organization). Of course, Sak is best known for the swath that he has cut through the world of NHB. Currently, he is the top middle-weight NHB fighter in the world (despite being knocked out recently by Vanderlei Silva), and has four victories against Royce, Renzo, Ryan, and Royler...yes, their last name being GRACIE. As far as the UFC being more real than the WWF...here's where we have to be careful. One should not look at the EVENT so much as you should look at individual MATCHES. IMHO, the UFC does not condone or coordinate the showing of worked matches. However, even a cursory review of the UFC's history will show some interesting moments. Kazushi Sakuraba's shocking armbar victory over "Conan" Silviera at UFC Japan has long been rumored to have been a work...word even has it that the Yakuza paid big money to Conan in order to take a dive for the local boy. The match remains a subject of internet debate to this day. At that same event, a VERY curious match occurred between Vitor Belfort and Joe Charles. It was curious in that not a single punch was thrown during the course of the match, and ended in a submission victory for Belfort. This was shocking given Belfort's history of pummeling opponents into submission. Later, when pressed on the matter, Belfort retorted that he wanted to showcase his BJJ submission skills to the world...however, this doesn't explain why Charles never threw a single strike. The consensus view is that both fighters agreed beforehand not to exchange blows, but rather have a pure grappling match. No...not a predetermined outcome, but there was evidence of cullusion. Another quick example is the lightning quick victory of Oleg Taktarov over Anthony Macias at an early UFC via guillotine choke from the guard. In the replay, Macias can be seen pointing and winking to Oleg from across the ring...moments before he literally offers his neck to Oleg on a silver platter. Did I mention that these two were good friends outside the octagon? Given that...it's still quite ridiculous (even for discussion's sake) to try and compare the UFC to the WWF. By and large, the UFC is legitimate NHB fighting. The fights that you see are real, and have no predetermined criteria as to how the fight will take place, or who will be the winner. From time-to-time, it appears that individual fighters have taken some matters into their own hands, but the promoters are deadset against this. Remember, American NHB fans are RABIDLY opposed to works and exhibition fights...anything less than true NHB is perceived as "cheap" and "unethical". If you're going to do a work...call it a work. But don't try and pass off works as NHB, because American fans will let you have it across the myriad of message boards that cater to the true NHB fans...some of the battles that happen there are more interesting than the fights themselves. So, IMHO...there's no comparison between what you see in the WWF and what you see in the UFC, King of the Cage, Superbrawl, IVC, Rage in the Cage, etc. Fight fans are very savvy...we know the difference between a "real fight" and a "stiff work". We also know the history of our sport very well, and are well aware of the interconnection between legitimate fighting and the world of "fight entertainment"...we know the personalities and we know the organizations. Truthfully, the only people who could possibly be "fooled" are the ones that have never watched much of either. In the end, the two have always existed side-by-side...and they always will. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:13:39 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Mastr McHenry's Video Forms Master McHenry, The collection of forms videos is a great idea! Just looked through a few. Been a long time since I've seen some of the Tuls. Had trouble opening the WTF poomse though. But I have wondered why someone didn't do what you are doing. I think it is a great way to compare the differences and similarities in hyung sets. So, Thank You Sir! Tang Soo!!! Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ From: "john sodihlhxh" Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 16:30:24 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: kukkiwon numbers I was curious what the source of the numbers was. Does the Kukkiwon have that info on line or published? or some other method. thanks .. btw i thought it was interesting. Bill Evans Moo Sul Kwan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:23:02 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: kukkiwon numbers > I was curious what the source of the numbers was. Does the Kukkiwon have > that info on line or published? or some other method. Check out the Kukkiwon website, if you can read hangul. Linked to off of www.martialartsresource.com Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 16:50:39 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #284 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.