From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #288 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 11 May 2001 Vol 08 : Num 288 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Stone Cold the_dojang: Th Beginning of Understanding the_dojang: Catch Wrestling Information the_dojang: re: Korean Forms video page the_dojang: Re: Scouts the_dojang: Billy Blanks as actor Re: the_dojang: Catch Wrestling Information Re: the_dojang: re: Korean Forms video page the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:42:31 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Stone Cold >>>Ok,,, but just don't go bad mouthing The Rock! Don't go bad mouthing Stone Cold either! :-) ------------------------------ From: Tkdtiger@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:43:26 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Th Beginning of Understanding a friend asked me to pass this on - he wrote it after hearing about the KTA problems: THE BEGINNING OF Understanding As the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) prepares to consider some monumental changes in the competition rules that are designed to make sport taekwondo more spectator friendly and certainly more exciting, a change of a different sort has breached the tranquillity of the Land of the Morning Calm.=C2=A0 It appears the Korean Taekwondo Association (KTA) has been forced to confront what I believe is the most critical non-technical issue facing sport taekwondo today.=C2=A0 If this issue is not quickly and permanently resolved, it will likely impede the future growth of sport taekwondo and certainly discourage spectator interest. For those of us born and bred in the USA, it is literally anincomprehensible issue since it is the fundamental principle on which all sport is based, and one with which we have been familiar since little league and peewee athletics.=C2=A0 I hope this does not surprise any of you, but it is called unbiased and unprejudicial officiating.=C2=A0 It is when you compete against only your opponent, not your opponent and the official.=C2=A0It means fair officiating at all levels of competition, the higher the level the more inviolate and professional the officiating. Many of us were introduced to this ideal between the ages of five and ten. We played the traditionalsports year in and year out throughout our adolescence always taking it for granted We knew about home field and home court advantages. We understood that certain people were more gifted than others, and we could see that certain individuals and teams were fortunate enough to have better coaches and betterfacilities than other individuals and teams.=C2=A0We understood that the officials were just human, usually volunteers,and were capable of errors.=C2=A0 When thoseofficials did error, we knew our coach would likely be our advocate, eventhough the decision would probably stand.=C2=A0We knew those were the breaks and that was part of good sportsmanship. With the growth of professional sports we saw this idealbecome even more important and inviolate.=C2=A0Now the stakes included not just the realization of an ideal, butgaining or losing large sums of money.=C2=A0Even the hint of an impropriety by an official or player if proven,could mean banishment forever from the field of play.=C2=A0 Activities such as gambling, using drugs to increase yourperformance, and associating with disreputable people could mean the end ofyour career.=C2=A0 In some cases, just theappearance of impropriety was enough to blemish a spectacular career befittingHall of Fame honors. This ideal that is the bedrock of all sport is apparentlybecoming manifest in the birthplace of taekwondo.=C2=A0 It seems that students from three Korean Universities have becomethoroughly disgusted with what they believed was biased and unfair officiatingat the 2001 Korean Team Trials, that they left their seats and stopped thematches for a number of hours. Students from Kyonghee, Yong In, and Kyungwon Universities have even gone so far as toestablish a union called the Taekwondo Reformation Union. Their demands including among other things ameeting with the WTF president, Kim Un Yong, an apology from the KTA, and theresignation of all the KTA directors. Some of the leaders of the student movement have even shavedtheir hair to show their resolve and commitment to the changes theydemand.=C2=A0 In language whose meaningcannot be mistaken, they refer to their desire to clean off the absurdity andcorruptness of refereeing that has been so dominant over taekwondo.=C2=A0 In light of their protest, some refereeshave even admitted that people of high position have ordered them to decideunfairly.=C2=A0 This confrontation may signal=E2=80=9Cthe beginning of understanding.=E2=80=9D It is not surprising that this understanding should see itsbirth in the university educational system.=C2=A0Historically, students in higher education have been some of the firstto champion those causes where such values as freedom, democracy, or equalityhave been under attack by conservative and reactionary forces unresponsive toreformatory and progressive change.=C2=A0 This protest may flow from the same inspirational matrix that producedsome of the major protest movements of this century such as civil rights,anti-war, and women=E2=80=99s liberation.=C2=A0 Theseand similar movements have traditionally found sympathetic expression andsupport on university campuses. Hopefully students from these three universities have cometo understand that the nature of sport must transcend such cultural imperativesas authority, seniority, influence, and power.=C2=A0They have apparently rallied against not only the inequity of unfair andpolitical decision-making, but also the very idea that somehow sport can existin a climate where the officiating is biased, officials are seen as corrupt,and the playing field is perpetually unlevel.=C2=A0From a western perspective where the ideals of sport have been part ofour cultural heritage for close to two hundred years, we might wonder why theydid not get it sooner. But just when we Americans may begin to become smug inthinking of our progress in understanding and promoting the ideals of sport, wein the Olympic-style taekwondo community need to confront the reality of oursituation.=C2=A0 When it comes to important matches that determine the national championships and national team members, Ibelieve that there are those in the United States Taekwondo Union (USTU) who are quite comfortable with the KTA model. It appears the cultural imperatives that permitted certain officials ofthe KTA to violate their sacred oath and kowtow to the wishes of others ofinfluence, are alive and well in the USA and have been for decades. If I am incorrect, then my experience as acoach in ten National Team Trials has provided me with little understanding ofthe dynamics of the competitive process. In all honestly I must admit that I am embarrassed to airthese beliefs. I long ago felt thatthose of us in Olympic-style taekwondo who had spent the majority of our livesas devotees of the ideals of sport would by now have demanded and facilitatedreform in our sport.=C2=A0 I ingenuously believed we would not tolerate the behavior of officials who systematicallyviolated their oath of impartiality and unbiasedness.=C2=A0 I was sadly wrong.=C2=A0 I did not understand or consider how the power of rank and certification, or thestatus of making the= Team, can negatively influence a person or corrupt his orher values. So at this time, it is fitting that praise be bestowed onthose most deserving. To our youngKorean brothers and sisters at Kyonghee, Yong In, and Kyungwon Universities, Ithank you for your courage and idealism in the face of the cultural andinstitutional barriers that you dared to breach, and I salute you.=C2=A0 I admire your commitment to the ideals ofsport and your indomitable spirit in the face of the power structures of the KTA and WTF. regret that we Americanswho have best understood the ideals of sport have provided you with such a poor example. I hope that in the future your example will empower us todemand similar reforms that you have so courageously championed in confronting the established leadership of your organizations.=C2=A0 I wish to believe that enough athletes, coaches, and officials inthe USTU have the same kind of moral fiber you exhibited, and that in thefuture we will only accept an inviolate standard of officiating free ofcorruption and manipulation.=C2=A0 Ifervently hope that anything else will be repudiated by all the athletes,coaches, and officials who share a bond of integrity and belief in the sanctityof competitive sports. The ramifications of this issue are easy to comprehend. Sport only exist when officials administera level playing field through impartial, unprejudicial, and unbiaseddecision-making. When errors occur,they are solely attributed to judgment, and the character of the officials isbeyond reproach. If you do notrecognize this as describing the competitive environment of the United States Senior National Championships and the Team Trials, it is obviously time to takea cue from our young Korean mentors. Guy Poos has coached at ten National Team Trials, is acertified A-1 referee, a USTU member since 1988, a Kukkiwon 7th dan, and has practiced martial arts forthe last 40 years. He is president of Poos Taekwondo, Electronic Tournaments, Inc. and the American Sport Taekwondo Association, a 501-C3 nonprofit corporation dedicated to aiding at-riskyouth. I have some of his other articles posted on the Tekno site under Scoring ------------------------------ From: "John Bennett" Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:17:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Catch Wrestling Information > From: Lorne Keatley > Catch-as-catch-can, forerunner of the pro style, is an art very close to > philosophy of BJJ. I'm sorry Lorne. I hate to jump you on your first post, but that is really not true. What people call "catch-as-catch-can" is a made-up style that was adapted from professional wrestling moves. It is not based on sound competative or real-world trial and error. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is a distillation and enhancement of pre-WWII Judo techniques that IS based on trial and error gained through years of competition and years of real-world personal combat. While they may be similar strategically, they are VERY different conceptually and philisophically. ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 07:37:23 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: re: Korean Forms video page First, many thanks to Master McHenry for the bringing an excellent idea to reality. The compilation of forms is a great way for us to share our arts. With a background in TangSooDo and TaeKwonDo (ATA), I viewed these forms with much interest. While I have been exposed to the Chang Hon forms, a question comes to mind when viewing these... Since I have never learned the "sine wave" concept, I need to ask if the bobbing motion during the steps, between each move in these videos is the sine wave in action, or is this Mr. Young's own presentation style? Since this is new to me, at first I thought my viewer was pausing, but then I came to realize this appeared to be a deliberate addition to the execution of each technique/step. I don't want to start the Sine Wave Wars again, and I am not judging anything here, I would just like to more fully understand what I've seen. Thank you for helping me think outside my box! Mark Lasich Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:41:10 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Scouts I have not been a Scout Master for a few years (my son earned his Eagle Scout at 15 -- and then got busy with school and work and I went back to teaching TKD.). At that time, Judo was part of the sports or athletics merit badge. I worked for a short while to get TKD included. I was able to get a hearing from BSA headquarters. The final decision was that they did not want to include any sport that encouraged kicking or hitting -- to violent. Keep in mind that football and rugby were included. I gave up. I would love to tackle it again someday. Anyone interested in working on it? Robert Martin ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 04:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Billy Blanks as actor Craig noted: Response: I think I watched one of his B rated movies one night after a long week. Reminded me of a Cheech and Chong movie. The acting was like an Erik Estrada scene on CHIPS. Or, maybe like Pee Wee Herman's Big Adventure. No, Pee Wee Herman in a Cheech and Chong movie. McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:14:59 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Catch Wrestling Information > What people call "catch-as-catch-can" is a made-up style that was adapted > from professional wrestling moves. It is not based on sound competative or > real-world trial and error. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is a distillation and > enhancement of pre-WWII Judo techniques that IS based on trial and error > gained through years of competition and years of real-world personal combat. > > While they may be similar strategically, they are VERY different > conceptually and philisophically. Farmer Burns and Frank Gotch (no relation to Karl who much later tapped out Kimura six times in less than 15 minutes) did 'Catch'. I suspect they would disagree with the above, were they still alive. I believe that Karl is still alive and teaching Matt Furey down in Florida. These old 'hookers' doing catch -supposedly- had little problem submitting the Judo and JJ players they faced. Most all of the 'hookers' are now gone, too bad given how highly effective their art was. don't go there... :) To train with perhaps the best in submission, check out 85 year old Lou Thesz. He still occasionally teaches seminars. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 6:17:05 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: re: Korean Forms video page > I don't want to start the Sine Wave Wars again, and I am not judging > anything here, I would just like to more fully understand what I've seen. or check out Sinewave.mov in the archives of the_dojang. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 6:32:54 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #288 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.