From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #303 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 17 May 2001 Vol 08 : Num 303 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #301 the_dojang: Joon M. Jee Books the_dojang: Solo forms...still relevant? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #302 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #302 the_dojang: RE: The Koreans (Breen, 1998) the_dojang: RE: Training Choices the_dojang: They grabbed my foot!!! the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #302 the_dojang: hapkido in nY the_dojang: directions the_dojang: Korean Martial Arts Training Calendar the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:36:51 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #301 Here's something only MA practitioners could appreciate. My colleagues look at me like I am, well, in desperate need of Prozac or some other mood stabilizing drug when I enthusiastically show my 'battle scars'... I had the absolute best training experience yesterday! I got beaten up by a 13-year-old girl! No, I am not being sarcastic. It truly was a great learning experience. This young woman is a phenomenal fighter. She turned and swept me (which generally is considered bad etiquette in Tang Soo Do class sparring) and I hit the floor with dizzying speed and disbelief. She basically cleaned the Do Jang with my dignity :0 ) She said, "That's how people really fight." God help us all when this girl goes hormonal... I was also accidentally kicked in the rear my a gentleman nearly 7 foot tall. (MK, I stood pretty much ALL DAY...I think I now have a one up on your old "Sasha" injury.) - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: "John Groff" Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 12:48:29 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Joon M. Jee Books >>One of Joon M. Jee's HKD books just sold on Ebay for forty-some dollars. >>I was substantially outbid :( Anyone seen them? How bad should I feel? >>David N. Beck Dear David & All, I believe Ryukyu Imports sells one of the Jee textbooks ("Into to Hapkido" ???). See: http://ryukyu.com/book/02hap.html Take Care, Chaney ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:09:50 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Solo forms...still relevant? Here's one for discussion... I'm wondering about people's opinions as to the relevancy of solo forms practice in today's modern world. In particular, do solo forms still deserve a prominant place in the modern martial artist's toolbox? For simplicity (and I may record the results if we get enough responses), let's use a simple grading scale of 1 to 10. The spectrum would look something like this: 1 = "Forms are no longer relevant, they have been supplanted by more efficient and effective training methods". 10 = "Forms are the cornerstone of martial arts training...they can't be replaced and are still relevant". A 5 would indicate indifference..."forms are useful but not all-important". Ok, so that's the grading scale. Give a number to indicate your position, and then give a brief (or long) summary to back your position. A few caveats: 1. People train for different purposes, and this in itself makes the question of "kata's" relevancy very complex. For simplicity, answer the question as forms pertain to making a "fighter"...in other words the usefulness (or uselessness) of forms in helping create a person that is capable of engaging in single combat. Of course, consider this on all three levels...physical, mental, and spiritual. 2. Without exception, someone will chime in and say, "Craig, how DARE you question the relevancy of forms? Are you mad? Blasphemer!!!" Please, keep in mind there are just as many people that believe forms practice is hogwash (in sculpting a fighter) as there are those that swear by them. I'm interested in personal experience...not re-processed dogmatic belief, "Sa Bu Nim says", and all that good rot. What do YOU really think?...don't give me XYZ Association's party line cuz I've "been there, done that". I look forward to the responses. I'll give my opinion on this in a subsequent post. Craig "Yeah, but I'm a damned SEXY troll" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: DWoods321@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:01:02 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #302 Mr. Terry, I would like my friend DWTSD@aol.com to be subscribed to the Dojang Digest. Thank you! ------------------------------ From: "Floyd, Jim" Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 14:38:08 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #302 < Snip > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leslie Harris Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 09:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Hey, I hear you know Karate Greetings, There were a few brief comments on the list earlier regarding friends or acquaintances finding out that we train in the martial arts and then saying things like "think you can beat me up?" or "show me what you know," etc. Yesterday, I was told that a middle-school aged blue belt in our (tkd) school was challenged by a classmate with the line "I hear you know Karate. Why don't you show me what you know." The blue belt student turned to his classmate and bowed. Then walked away. Challenge over. I thought he handled himself very well in a situation that wasn't likely to escalate (ie, he wasn't in a dangerous place with a dangerous person). Certainly can't recommend it as the first move in a barroom brawl, but it sounds like a good response to those basically harmless people who just don't get why we train.... Respectfully, Leslie - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have been training 35 years and that is the best use of the Martial Arts I ever heard. Jim Floyd ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:02:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The Koreans (Breen, 1998) Dear Richard: "...Instead of stealing their material why don't these wanna-bees practice, try to meet the KHF standards and test for rank? I hope that I don't sound angry, I am really just feel embarrassed for these losers. They go so far to embellish the truth about who they are and what they are...". I think I know what you are saying, and of course you are right to think that getting pissed won't help. All the same, I, too, get very tired of the same old rip-offs time and again. It brings to mind some thoughts by Breen in his book THE KOREANS in which he identifies one of the most influential cultural attributes as a kind of modern tribalism. In this case, Breen suggests that it is not the Koreans as a collective identifying themselves opposed to the rest of the world, but rather select sub-cultures within the Korean culture itself that identify themselves as distinct and separate from everybody including other Koreans. Its almost as if the many Hapkido arts justify what they do by identifying themselves as separate and distinct because it suits their own purpose to do so and not because there is any real concrete reasoning behind it. Since our many discussion a while back I have been poking around the Korean psyche trying to figure out just why it is that 2 plus 2 rarely comes up to 4 in Korean culture. Among the other interesting things Breen points out are the following items. 1.) Koreans have a very old and venerable history which they avoid identifying as much as possible. Breen points out that in a city which is brightly lit well into the night as is Seoul, you would be hard pressed to locate the historical locations much less get anyone to fill you in on their importance. 2.) Whatever organizations, institutions or movements that might be manifest in Korean culture, the Korean people have a way of "Koreanizing" the influence such that it bends to their way of preceiving the word which is essentially an adversarial ("us vs the outsiders") position. 3.) Whatever other image I could develop of Korean culture, Breen supports the idea that Koreans, especially males, simply want what they want when they want it cuz they want it. Most of the rest of the things we identify as Korean culture is simply trappings that obscure or contribute to this fact. There are some other things but I share this material because I wonder if perhaps in examining the folks who have provided the current mess in which Hapkido arts finds itself, maybe I have overlooked the obvious. Perhaps I have assumed that Hapkido leadership are dedicated practitioners seeking the very best for their art and their culture. Maybe, maybe I need to consider that these leaders are just poor dumb shmoes who want a buck or a tax shelter like everybody else and Hapkido arts just happens to be the branch they lit on. Hhhmmm, yeah, I could see that. BTW: Richard, were you ever able to identify a particular heritage of Tai Chi Chuan for which the style that was presented at the seminar you mentioned is derived? Were the movements from a select style or a representative cross-section of movements from a selection of styles? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:16:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Training Choices Dear Mike: "...and if you could train with anybody on the planet (living or dead) who would it be (and why)?.." Gees, where do I start. A is for Aikido .... so I would want OS Tomiki for effectiveness and OS Shioda for style and form. K is for Karate... OS Oyama for effectiveness and OS Funakoshi for style and form Aiki-jujutsu.... S Don Angier for effectiveness and S Okamoto for style and form Hapkido.... anyone that can pull our community together. Sword ..... Minamoto Musashi for hype and the Japanese sword-saint Tessho for technique. Best I can do for right now, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:21:34 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: They grabbed my foot!!! Sarah wrote: "My sister and I goof around outside of class all the time, and it always ends up with someone grabbing someone else’s foot. The grabbee then hops around, totally helpless." Been there, done that. LOL!!! Funny, I don't think about this often, but this particular post struck me. Seriously, in a real altercation...what do you do? This is a critical question if you choose to train an art/style/system that relies heavily on the kick as a tool. Basically, the "captured leg" situation runs along two broad flavors. 1. They've captured your leg at the foot/ankle. 2. They've captured your leg at the knee. First, for the foot/ankle. Just jump off of your grounded leg and roundhouse kick them in the head like those Japanese wrestlers...ok, just kidding. 1. In this situation, unless you're fighting Whistler's mother, you're probably going down. The only question is "how hard", and "when". If nothing else, they will lift/push the leg and dump you backwards...worst case scenario is if they know what they're doing and give you some major hangtime by sweeping the grounded leg. Either way, a fall from this position is not good. First and foremost, if the hips are turned over (final position for roundhouse or side kick)...reorient your hips to the front (like you're front kicking them) and get your torso back upright. This will allow you to keep your balance longer, and provides the flexibility (if you have it) to do what comes next. Again, they're going to put you down, so don't give them the opportunity. Perform a controlled descent by sitting straight down on the heel of the grounded foot. As soon as your arse hits the pavement (and use the hands to brace and control) fire a straight oblique kick with the grounded foot into their knee or shin...striking with the heel or the flat of the foot. Be wary of a kick to your privates from this position. Your kick may or may not break their grip, but your skull will be intact. Repeat the kick as able/necessary. If they let go, and the distance is adequate...rise back to a standing position (keeping in mind that there's a right and a wrong way to do this) and go from there. If not, prepare to fight from the ground. Either way, you've avoided a big fall. Best case scenario...they're nursing a broken tibia. 2. Captured at the knee...actually this is not a bad position. I'm assuming that they're using both hands to control my knee...otherwise I should be able to wrest free with no problem (unless he's Giganto). Again, first things first...orient the body so that the torso is upright, and your hips are square with the opponent. This is to make it hard for them to dump you, and the fact that you're going to use your hands/arms. Here goes...the opponent has captured my right knee, and is clinching it with both hands...my knee is forward and left of their body. Since my thigh is only about a foot-and-a-half long, and they're holding onto my knee...we will be at fairly close range. I immediately apply a chancery to his head (visualize the Muay Thai plumb position), and wrench his head down and to MY right (down and to HIS left). If done properly, the foot of my captured leg will now be in contact with the ground. I have effectively made my opponent "shorter" by wrenching his head down...head goes down, shoulders go down, arms go down...simple. If not, my opponent's unbalanced state will at least allow me better leverage to wrest my leg free (imagine stomping straight downward). Lots of things can happen: a. They let go of the leg to fight my clinch (this is fairly instinctual). b. They let go of the leg because my wrench was strong enough to send them for a fall, and they let go to fight for balance. c. Once they let go...ice your cake as you see fit...fire knees from the clinch position, elbows, headbutts, turn the chancery into a headlock then shift into a throw, etc. d. If the fight goes to the ground...your head chancery gives you the control to wind up in a dominant position...hopefully, somewhere on top (knee on stomach, mount, cross side, etc). Food for thought... Craig Stovall "Big Pimpin' and Still Trollin'" _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: RDNHJMS@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:22:08 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #302 Mr. Hackworth wrote: <> Hey, wait a minute. You have left out Sin Moo Hapkido, Combat Hapkido, and all other Hapkido organizations. Why not just call everyone else in the world losers all at once. This will eliminate the need to regurgitate yourself in the future. You know, this reminds me of a saying my last Commanding General here at Special Operations Command used on many occasions. (General Schoomaker crawled out of the fire and wreckage of Desert One in the Iranian desert one terrible night in April 1980.) I'll sanitize as necessary: "B.S. at the speed of light is still B.S." V/R, Rick Nabors ------------------------------ From: "soho soho" Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:21:33 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: hapkido in nY hi does anyone have a list or know of any hapkido schools in New York? regards Bryce _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:09:45 PDT Subject: the_dojang: directions > I would like my friend DWTSD@aol.com to be subscribed to the > Dojang Digest. Thank you! Just send her/her these directions... Thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do you practice Korean martial arts? e.g. Tang Soo Do, HwaRang Do, Kuk Sool Won, Taekwondo, TaekKyon, Hapkido, Soo Bahk Do, Gumdo, Yudo, Ship Pal Ki, Yu Sool, Kong Soo Do, Kung Jung Moo Sool, etc. Our readers range from 9th gup (white belt) to 9th Dan. Come practice with us at the "the_dojang-digest", 7 years of continuous operation. the_dojang-digest is a ~1111 member e-mail distribution list for the RESPECTFUL discussion of all Korean martial arts. We remain the oldest, largest and by far the premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean martial arts. All are welcome! The list is managed by "Majordomo". To subscribe to the_dojang-digest send e-mail to the address; majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com with subscribe the_dojang-digest in the BODY of the message, top line and left justified (not in the subject line). Also, make sure your e-mail is not in HTML format, use 'Plain Text' if using Outlook or Outlook Express or send via aolmail.aol.com if you're using AOL 6.0. Brought to you by http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ------------------------------ From: "hackworth" Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:16:47 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Korean Martial Arts Training Calendar Jun 2 KumMuSool Seminar with GrandMaster G.N. Lee. Orlando, Florida. 8 Power Breathing/Ki-Kong Certification Seminar GM Richard Hackworth 11-16 Black Belt/Instructors Summer Camp with GM Richard Hackworth 22 "Be A Teacher, Lead The Field" Seminar http://ma_success.tripod.com 23, 24 Quest For Success Seminar in Orlando, Florida 23 Referee/Sports Safety Certification Course www.usnta.net Jul 7,8 Korean Language & Culture Course with Master Mi Yi 13 Ki Power Development Course with Master Mi Yi www.jungdokwan.net 14 TangSooDo Forms Seminar with GM Steve Bowman in Boynton Bch., FL. 21,22 Instructors Leadership Course with GM Hackworth in Richmond, VA. 28 Pressure Point Identification Seminar with GM Richard Hackworth Aug 3 Gold Medal Sparring & Forms Seminar with GrandMaster Ho Jae Kim 4 Referee/Sports Safety Seminar www.usnta.net 11 Chamseon Meditation Certification Course with Master Mi Yi 17 Rape Awareness & Personal Safety Course www.americandragon.org Sep 1,2 SooRim Buddhist Martial Arts Weekend with GrandMaster Seok Kyu Lee 7 "Be A Teacher, Lead The Field" Seminar 8 Full Splits Total Body Flexibility Seminar with Master Mi Yi 8, 9 Quest For Success Seminar http://ma_success.tripod.com 29 Taegukkwan Certification Seminar with GM S.K. Lee Oct 6 Dynamic Breaking Seminar with GM Richard Hackworth 15-22 Korea Tour 2001 Visit KukKiWon, KHF HQ, Seoul SWAT Team Training, Train with the Korea Presidential Guards. 27 ChiMuKwan Certification Course with Buddhist Monk Kwang Min Sok Nov 2 HKD Advanced Tumbling & Black Belt Specialty Kicks Seminar with GM Hackworth 10-11 ShimKiDo Healing Arts Certification Camp with Buddhist Warrior Monk Seok Kyu Lee. Dec 1 Sports Safety Certification Course www.usyudo.org 8 Korean Language & Culture Course with Master Mi Yi 2002 Feb 22 "Be A Teacher, Lead The Field" Seminar http://ma_success.tripod.com Feb 23-24 Quest For Success Seminar in Ocoee, FL. at the Colony Plaza Resort For information on any course listed above or to add your event to the calendar please contact hackworth@worldkeyonline.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:06:58 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #303 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.