From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #306 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 18 May 2001 Vol 08 : Num 306 In this issue: the_dojang: Teaching Hapkido To Children the_dojang: Where did THAT come from? the_dojang: RE:Goofing Around Re: the_dojang: Where did THAT come from? the_dojang: Good day! the_dojang: DD 303 Cheree's post, the size thing again, etc. the_dojang: FYI the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hackworth" Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:33:35 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Teaching Hapkido To Children For those of you who have the opinion that "REAL" Hapkido cannot be taught to children, How old were GrandMasters Choi Yong Sul and Ji Han Jae when they started training??? Many of the finest Hapkidoists started as "Kids". GM Ji was barely out of high school when he began working for the Korean presidential security staff. Richard Hackworth http://khfhapkido.tripod.com ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:06:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Where did THAT come from? Taking into consideration some of the recent "history" around here, I was leery of pointing this out...but I just can't let this go (sorry Ray)... Mr. Sims writes, "With all due respect to your question, this really isn’t a MA question. It stopped being a MA question when you led off with the disclaimer “...My sister and I goof around outside of class...” In this case if you act like a goof you get goofy results." Dude...you need to take time out for some SERIOUS self reflection. First of all, she wasn't asking a question...she was sharing an anecdote. Second, there's no need to say that she was "acting like a goof". I'm really struggling to understand the need for this kind of venomous response on your part. People are not going to post to this list if they're insulted for innocent comments...and if people don't post... Now this is the part that really irks my soul: "If by some chance you happen to grab my leg the cost will be the loss of an eardrum, an eye, or the ability to use your airway. I can’t speak for other Korean arts, or even other Hapkido instructors, but I don’t teach Hapkido as a resource for parlor tricks or party games and it is the knowing that this art is used “for keeps” that helps me to refrain from using it at the drop of a hat." Excuse me...help me to sort this out: 1. The other day when someone posted the "WWF/NFL thing" you got all bent out of shape, posted a sarcastic response, went to great lengths to let everybody know that you were above the whole issue of "fighting", etc. Fine...I've gotten past that. 2. NOW...someone posts an innocent story about their foot being grabbed during some play sparring, and your lecturing us about how you'd maim somebody for grabbing your foot. Who are you...Ghandi or Billy Jack...or are you both depending on the mood that strikes you? From your rather bold statement about maiming somebody...I'll give you the benefit of a doubt, and assume that you actually know something about fighting. Here goes... If you can cause that kind of damage so easily, then how did they ever get ahold of your foot? Hell, if my life were on the line I'd have just taken out their eye, eardrum, or windpipe to BEGIN WITH...why bother with the kick. Of course...I'm assuming that we're talking about a life-and-death struggle...SURELY Bruce, you wouldn't maim a fellow human being during some mild scuffle. Plus, if you can take out their eye, eardrum, or windpipe while hopping around on one leg...SURELY Bruce, you could have dispatched them quite easily with both feet firmly attached to terra firma. Heck, if you're good enough to take out an eye while hopping on one leg...I don't see HOW they could have caught your kick. Somebody at that level of skill must have LIGHTNING kicks. Help me out...I really want to hear from a brother that "plays for keeps". Bruce, if you don't like me sticking my nose in your chowder...take a minute to consider how Sarah is probably reacting to your post. Do you think she's bubbling with joy? If you think I'm just a troll...that's fine. I'll let the quality of my posts dictate my "status" on this list. In the meantime, we'll see if you can take it as well as you can dish it. C'mon Bruce...let's see those Aiki principles at work. Craig "One of these days I'll get my mouth shut" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 22:40:15 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Goofing Around Bruce wrote: "If by some chance you happen to grab my leg the cost will be the loss of an eardrum, an eye, or the ability to use your airway. I can't speak for other Korean arts, or even other Hapkido instructors, but I don't teach Hapkido as a resource for parlor tricks or party games and it is the knowing that this art is used "for keeps" that helps me to refrain from using it at the drop of a hat. As far as your question about the situation you cited, apparently you are getting out of your training exactly what you are putting in." It must be nice to have a total confidence in one's kicking ability that one feels totally invunerable from kicking/counter takedowns. I teach my advanced students kicking counters in a progressive format... one-step, semi-free and free-style sparring, including foot-work drills to do just that--draw the person out and control their leg/body. We are wearing body gear and hitting quite hard as well. And, that training sequence came from Hapkido. I know that the statement, "I could have grabbed your leg" is overused by the receipient of a slow controled kick, but everyone is vunerable....especially if they are overconfident. Peace! Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:20:49 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Where did THAT come from? > Craig "One of these days I'll get my mouth shut" Stovall Take your time... You did good. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:23:30 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Good day! Paul Harvey on his 82nd Birthday: "We tried so hard to make things better for our kids that we made them, worse. For my grandchildren, I'd like better. I'd really like for them to know about hand-me-down clothes and homemade ice cream and leftover meat loaf sandwiches. I really would. I hope you learn humility by being humiliated, and that you learn honesty by being cheated. I hope you learn to make your own bed and mow the lawn and wash the car. And I really hope nobody gives you a brand new car when you are sixteen. It will be good if at least one time you can see puppies born and your old dog put to sleep. I hope you get a black eye fighting for something you believe in. I hope you have to share a bedroom with your younger brother. And it's all right if you have to draw a line down the middle of the room, but when he wants to crawl under the covers with you, let him. When you want to see a movie and your little brother wants to tag along, I hope you'll let him. I hope you have to walk uphill to school with your friends and that you live in a town where you can do it safely. On rainy days when you have to catch a ride, I hope you don't ask your driver to drop you two blocks away so you won't be seen riding with someone as uncool as your Mom. If you want a slingshot, I hope your Dad teaches you how to make one instead of buying one. I hope you learn to dig in the dirt and read books. When you learn to use computers, I hope you also learn to add and subtract in your head. I hope you get teased by your friends when you have your first crush on a girl, and when you talk back to your mother that you learn what Ivory soap tastes like. May you skin your knee climbing a mountain, burn your hand on a stove and stick your tongue on a frozen flagpole. I don't care if you try a beer once, but I hope you don't like it. And if a friend offers you dope or a joint, I hope you realize he is not your friend. I sure hope you make time to sit on a porch with your Grandpa and go fishing with your Uncle. May you feel sorrow at a funeral and joy during the holidays. I hope your mother punishes you when you throw a baseball through your neighbor's window and that she hugs you and kisses you at Christmas time when you give her a plaster mold of your hand. These things I wish for you - tough times and disappointment, hard work and happiness. To me, it's the only way to appreciate life. Send this to all of your friends who mean the most to you. We secure our friends not by accepting favors but by doing them. Paul Harvey...GOOD DAY!" ------------------------------ From: "Yarchak, Mary Kay" Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 19:11:33 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: DD 303 Cheree's post, the size thing again, etc. Cheree wrote... I was also accidentally kicked in the rear my a gentleman nearly 7 foot tall. (MK, I stood pretty much ALL DAY...I think I now have a one up on your old "Sasha" injury.) Welllllll, I don't know about that. You would have to turn a really ugly shade of black purple to top my Sasha-bruise... Although... after further consideration... and having been kicked by Nate in the past myself, I guess I'm willing to call it a draw. I don't really mean to get us back on the size difference thing again but I had an experience in class the other night with the same 7 foot-ish guy Cheree mentioned in her post that I thought I'd share. He was my partner for il soo sik. (I'm a hair over 5'4"). When we got to one where I was to take him down using grips on his right elbow and shoulder to unbalance him and sweeping his right leg, he decided to mess with my head by lifting his arm to shoulder height (I had a good grip, so that left my feet swinging a good several inches off the floor). Just a tad embarrassing. After he had his grins and put me down, I asked him if I could try again... and again... He finally had mercy and showed me that, by gripping his right elbow and LEFT shoulder (instead of right as is done in our standard one-step) I could twist him far enough to get the leverage I needed to take him down. Cool. So I tried again, and it worked. So well that I nearly damaged myself trying to keep him from hitting the floor too hard since he WAS kind enough to share the technique with me. Large folks do fall hard. When they fall. But they DO fall. Techniques are just different. One of the great things about training with folks like him is getting to work with those differences. And he gets to work with smaller quicker people who also have advantages in some situations. Am I looking forward to ever having to defend myself in a fight with someone like him? Not even close. But if reasoning and flight attempts fail, at least I know a couple things that'll help to keep me alive. And I'm learning more all the time. MK Yarchak 1st gup TSD ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:01:58 PDT Subject: the_dojang: FYI Forwarded message: Consumer Group Says Stay Away From Sports Supplements May 16, 2001 BOSTON (Boston Globe) - There's only one reasonable response to all the conflicting advice on sports supplements, America's leading consumer journal says: Stop taking them. That is because evidence is ``sketchy at best'' that the pills, drinks and powders actually increase energy or build muscles, said Consumer Reports. More important, too little is known about their safety for adults and even less for children. The final reason it issued its dire warning, the publication says, is that the government doesn't police sports supplements the way it does other medicines and foods. Consumer Reports isn't the first to go after sports supplements. But its alarm is the most far-reaching, covering products ranging from androstenedione, a steroid made famous by slugger Mark McGwire, to creatine, an amino acid that's in meat and fish. And it reaches more than 4 million readers, many of whom consider it the bible on safety and efficacy, so its unequivocal advice could deal a serious blow to the $1.4 billion industry. David Rosenthal, head of Harvard University Health Services, thinks a warning like the one issued Monday should be heeded by coaches, parents and athletes. ``It's time for us to say `No,''' he argues. ``These things aren't regulated, they are very erratic in their content from one batch to another ... and they could perhaps be causing great danger.'' But Patrick Rea, research director at Nutrition Business Journal, said the broadside will affect mainly casual users - not the 1.2 million body builders, trainers and other regulars who spend an average of $350 a month on the supplements. ``Sure, this big announcement may have some effect on sales,'' predicts Rea. ``But I don't think in any way it will be the downfall of the industry.'' That industry has been surging in recent years, and reaching ever-younger athletes who can get it in more and more mass merchandise stores. All of which is why Consumer Reports decided to conduct its own review of what it called the ``few good scientific studies'' available. Androstenedione, commonly called andro, ``flunked the two most rigorous studies of its efficacy,'' according to the consumer journal. In both, men who didn't take the steroid gained just as much muscle and strength as those who did, and it produced increases in harmful blood-cholesterol and in the female hormone estrogen. Research on creatine was more hopeful, showing it enhances performance in sports like high jumping and weight lifting that require brief, intense bursts of strength. But, the report says, it did not improve endurance and its long-term effects are totally unknown. ``I was stunned at how vigorously these products had been marketed based on little or no good scientific information,'' says Nancy Metcalf, a senior editor at Consumer Reports and author of the paper. The result, she writes, is that ``people who take these products are actually conducting what amounts to a vast, uncontrolled clinical experiment on themselves with untested, largely unregulated medications.'' The supplements investigated did not include sports drinks, such as Gatorade, that replenish fluids lost from exercise or athletic competition. Dr. Marvin Lipman, the publication's medical consultant, said the group could have recommended a more narrow rejection of sports supplements but ``there's no way in advance you can predict who's going to have an adverse reaction ... so we absolutely decided to err on the side of caution. ``The first step is go get the word out there that these things can be dangerous,'' he adds. ``The second thing I would like to do is put bans on the sale of the stuff to minors.'' But Dr. Scott Connelly, founder of the supplement manufacturer MET-Rx Engineered Nutrition, says that over the last decade there have been a series of studies showing that sports supplements ``produce benefits for everyone from naive subjects just entering sports conditioning programs to elite athletes at the pinnacle of development.'' Independent specialists on nutritional supplements had mixed reactions to the warning by Consumer Reports. While he would have focused more on supplements containing ephedra, a natural stimulant that is alleged to cause heart and other complications, he understands the broader concerns raised, says Dr. Gary I. Wadler, medical adviser to the White House Drug Policy Office and the World Anti-Doping Agency. So little is known about their long-term health effects, he explains, ``that any of these supplements represent to me a Faustian bargain where the payback is way down the road.'' But Charles Yesalis, professor of health and human development at Pennsylvania State University, says his 22 years of researching athletic doping convince him that the kind of warning issued by CU is ``going overboard.'' Youngsters should be steered away from many supplements, he says, but things like protein shakes and multivitamins are OK. As for adults, taken in proper doses supplements like creatine are not necessarily bad. Whatever the experts say, many elite athletes insist they have read the studies and know what is safe for them. The alarm sounded by Consumer Reports will ``have no effect at all on me because I've definitely seen the gains from supplements like protein and creatine,'' says Scott Cotter, 30, a professional trainer at Gold's Gym in Boston. ``Long-term we have no idea their effect but we have no idea about the long-term effects of products like NutraSweet.'' ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:03:03 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #306 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.