From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #338 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 13 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 338 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Influence vs Root the_dojang: Black Belt the_dojang: RE: Chinese Roots the_dojang: RE: Jackie Stern the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #337 the_dojang: RE: More KSW Stuff Re: the_dojang: KSW & TSD the_dojang: Questionaire the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #337 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:22:20 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Influence vs Root Dear Steve: "... But let me submit that a great deal of Korean Martial Arts, Kuk Sool included, have a quality that's uniquely Korean, and that fact is undeniable..." Thanks for taking time to respond. You raise a very good point by identifying the difference between a "root" and an "influence". Perhaps, as time allows, you might find an opportunity to expand on this theme as it impacts KSW. I think this is a much-misunderstood area of development in the Korean martial traditions. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "phil" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:49:31 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Black Belt Just out of curiosity, I would like to hear peoples impressions. Definition of a Black Belt ? Besides the obvious, 2' wide fabric in various lengths died black. Phil ------------------------------ From: "Master Frank Clay" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:27:43 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Chinese Roots Well... in my humble opinion... irrespective of what any of the "leadership" says, I firmly believe that KSW has chinese roots. This comes from my former experience of having studied chinese martial arts. I must agree with Dr. Hackworth, I don't see what the big deal is. Chinese roots or not, KSW is NOW distinctly Korean. In the Pyung Ahn poomse/hyungs I don't see any Chinese influence. That set of poomse is only about 100 years old and was created by a gentleman named Itosu for teaching Children. At least thats the story. If anyone else has heard another story I'd love to hear it, as I have a tendency to think the truth is somewhere in between what I said, and perhaps another variation of the story. Input? Frank ------------------------------ From: "Master Frank Clay" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:18:47 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Jackie Stern I don't remember who it was, but someone else I knew received the email from Stern... you'd think he'd check our his terminology before claiming anything about a Hombu in Korea... hehe. Caveat Emptor Frank ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:14:28 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #337 Statistically, 4 to 6% percent of the population (US) has an attention disorder. There are many factors contributing to the diagnosis of ADD or ADHD. Not all 'symptoms' denote the disorders. They have quickly become a scapegoat for the inability of a child to exhibit self-control. For those accurately diagnosed, many sufferers carry the characteristic inability to concentrate, excitability, etc., well into adulthood. There are documented cases, however, of the characteristics fading, even claims of disappearance through age progression. Many adults (even many children) learn a level of self-control that enables them to function, by the narrow spectrum of societal norms, as 'normal.' My point was not that karate cannot facilitate the change, but that it WILL NOT ALWAYS be the child's saving grace. My contribution was aimed at the hardworking instructor who may become disheartened when she or he fails to 'reach' a child. Dizz- My problem was never saying, "I can't." I desperately needed to learn my limitations and accept them with reverence. That's one of the greatest contributions the Martial Arts have made on my live. Opposite of yours, but non-the-less crucial. Hyperactivity alone is not enough to ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:28:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: More KSW Stuff Dear Richard: "....I didn't know that KSW is now claiming to have "zero" Chinese roots. There is no shame in it. Does HwaRangDo also claim to have NO Chinese influence? I don't think that anyone cares one way or the other. The Hapkido people don't run around saying that there is no Japanese influence in their system. Whats the big deal?..." I can't be sure what the problem is either. I did notice that in your post that you, also, seemed to mix the idea of "root" and "influence" which is a point that I was hoping that Steve might have shed some light on. I have a hard time imagining that were a person to take a class in Chinese boxing in Korea that there would be no identifiable connect to some heritage or relationship with a particular school, art or lineage. Even here in the States where we like to mix-and-match to a fault one can still tease out certain techniques, postures or tactics. My thought was that if one were to identify perhaps a number of Chinese Boxing arts and then identify the ChinNa subset techniques for those art, perhaps we could shed some light on what Korean grappling may have looked like prior to the incorporation of Daito-ryu Techniques. At the time of your training did you get any clues at all? Did you get any feel at all for what might have been the most popular Chinese styles at the time you were over there? (I remember reading a passage in the MYTBTJ that alluded to executing a kicking technique in a circular manner "as do the Chin".). I certainly don't want to step on any sensitive cultural areas, but I don't think that we should be stalmated in asking questions. BTW: Thanks again for the info on the TAI CHI material. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:37:02 EDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: KSW & TSD In a message dated 06/13/2001 9:14:46 AM EST, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Well, once again I have been accused of "Stirring it up" again with the Kido folks. It seems that Steve Seo has forgotten that I had been a student of KSW at one time. That class was advertised as "Kung-Fu" where I took it. What about KSW is "uniquely" Korean other than some of the Hapkido they like to mix in? Or is Hapkido uniquely Japanese? I don't really care. I like Hapkido just the way it is. I enjoyed the KSW training when I was doing it. I was trying to get an educated comparison of KSW & TSD. I didn't know that KSW is now claiming to have "zero" Chinese roots. There is no shame in it. Does HwaRangDo also claim to have NO Chinese influence? I don't think that anyone cares one way or the other. The Hapkido people don't run around saying that there is no Japanese influence in their system. What's the big deal?>> I think there should be a difference made that might clarify the points that have been expressed on this subject. In the thousand years that the martial arts developed in Korea, China and Japan, it seems impossible that each wasn't influenced by the others. For example, the northern systems of Kung Fu. They stress kicks and complex body maneuvers, as opposed to the more hand oriented southern systems. There is a clear relationship between the northern systems and KMA. Not exact, but it is there. With China and Korea's long relationship, there had to be a blending of different techniques as the soldiers and teachers leaned from the other's soldiers and teachers. Now, KSW may not have DIRECT Chinese roots, but there has to be a Chinese influence -- several hundred years or more old and filtered through many generations of Korean masters, just as there must be some Korean influences in the Northern systems of Kung Fu, filter through a many generations of Chances masters. I think it's a moot point either way.... Craig ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Questionaire *How long did it take you to earn your first Dan? Six years and two art forms... *If you are an Instructor, what is the average time for your students? 3.5 years *Does this time differ depending on age? Yes the youngest students 5/6 usually take 4+ years *In what style(s) do you hold a Dan grade? Tang Soo Do *On average approximately how many hours did/do you train a week? 7 to 10 hours per week Regards, Charles R. Moja Kwan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: kronikmac Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:07:39 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #337 The main Problem I see is everyone is lumping ADD and ADHD together. They are two distintly different conditions and should be treated as such. My son and I both have ADD and Martial Arts has helped both of us tremendously. We both have problems maintaining concentration and focus and TKD has helped that quite a bit. However ADHD adds the problem of Hyperactivity to the Attention Defecit disorder which makes it even harder for a person to maintain concentration. Since I don't have ADHD and neither does my son I can't say for sure how much MA would help someone with this condition. I will give a bit of advice that I've found works quite well. Give the student a soda that is high in caffeine before class. This accompishes the same effect that drugs like ridilin do. It ties up several receptors in the brain and keeps them from "shorting out" this leaves fewer receptors in the brain to short out and helps maintain a higher level of concentration without the use of drugs. I am not saying that ridilin is bad, it made a tremendous difference in mine and my sons ability to concentrate when doing things like work or school but I try to use it only for those situations. Hope this helps those out there that are having to deal with ADD. Danny Dodge ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:39:41 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #338 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.