From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #340 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 14 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 340 In this issue: the_dojang: Pak Victor DeThouars Open Seminar in Capitola, Calif Re: Subject: the_dojang: Black Belt the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #339 the_dojang: Roots-not the movie! the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #339 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #338 the_dojang: Korean vs. Chinese the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #339 the_dojang: Time the_dojang: RE: What is a Black Belt the_dojang: Roots the_dojang: Re: What is a Black Belt the_dojang: Black Belt meaning the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:33:57 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Pak Victor DeThouars Open Seminar in Capitola, Calif Forwarded message: Silat seminar info... Ray ---------------------------------------------------------- Selamat All, I hope this email is finding you well. Pak Victor DeThouars will be teaching a public Serak seminar: Day: Sunday, July 29 Time: 8am to 5pm with 1 hr. lunch Location: N. California #1 Tjabang headquarters, Capitola CA. Cost: $90.00 Please spread the word and RSVP so we can plan for the crowd! Terima Kasi, Antek Guru Mike Roberto VDT Academy ------------------------------ From: Bernard G Redfield Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:03:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Subject: the_dojang: Black Belt <> Or Midnight Blue : 0 ) Tang Soo!! ------------------------------ From: "Baade, John" Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:09:36 +1000 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #339 >>>>>>> Hmmm Black Belt. A person who has passed their apprenticeship. Thas as simple as I can put it, I and lots of other people more qualified than me could probably provide essays or theses's on stuff like Black Belt benifits and attitudes ect. Regards John Baade Power Hapkido Academy Melbourne Australia www.completeselfdefence.com ------------------------------ From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:56:24 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Roots-not the movie! Exactly Ray,you can put it something like this India==Greece, China==Mongolia & India, Korea==China & Mongolia, Japan==Korea. I know this is simplistic but I bet not far off from the truth. Michael Tomlinson ******************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager at administrator@volusia.k12.fl.us. ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ From: "Maafa" Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:24:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #339 Whenever I look up information on Jung Do, I see "Yun Jung Do" and "Jung Do Kwan." Should I assume that these are the same as Jung Do? Jawara ------------------------------ From: FGS & KVF Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:32:31 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #338 > > Definition of a Black Belt ? > I have read "master of the basics", and would have to say that my definition as a beg-intermediate student is similar. It is the level at which the student "knows" his beginning skills without thought. He/she reacts with accuracy, power and control. Forms are crisp and done with concentration. Color belts can look up to these folks as models for what is to come after years of hardwork. Black Belt in most schools: There is the difference btw definition and reality. Black belts can meet the above paragragh, or they can be anywhere from advanced-beginner to advanced-intermediate level wearing a black colored belt. It depends on the school and instructors. Do they have black belt students or students who wear black belts. Spunky _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Dizzy S." Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:38:52 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Korean vs. Chinese Andy wrote: <> All I have to say to you, Andy, is AMEN! :o) Don't get me wrong. I used to be so into just learning TSD, and wanting to learn just the Korean arts. But, guess what? ALL martial arts is great in their own way, and I wanna learn what ever I can. Besides learning some history of the art, I don't give a crap where or who influenced it. I know I'm training hard, learning, and I know this style (as well as others) is good :o) Martial arts is an art, to me. A beautiful art no matter where it came from. Talk to you all soon. Tang Soo! Dizz 6th gup TSD _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: FGS & KVF Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:47:03 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #339 > Subject: the_dojang: Black Belt > > Just out of curiosity, I would like to hear peoples impressions. > Definition of a Black Belt ? > Besides the obvious, 2' wide fabric in various lengths died black. > > Phil>>>>>>>> > > I have a web page that gives my view on the subject at: > http://www.dreamwater.com/sport/sungjado/THEBLACKBELT.html > > George Petrotta I read the article and found it quite clear and concise. I must say that my instructor in TKD told me that 3x per week would get the average student a BB in 4-6 years. However, I have met instructors who promote quicker, with students showing the worse for the wear, and instructors, not many, who promote later. One instructor was in a japanese art, and his students took 6-10 years, but not only were his BBs good, his color belts were also. I would have to say that as a PT and one who has studied motor learning, it takes a great deal of time to "learn" new physical skills. 2-3 years to become a BB is someone who has natural talent, and/or practices 6-10 hours per week. Having been in MA for 4 years now, and seeing tournaments, visiting other schools and demos, the quality of BBs is poor on average. Maybe they are mentally skillful and physically behind in their skill acquisition, but that was hard to see from watching demos, class or tournaments. In fact, the BBs I know who received their belts in 2-4 years are not at a physical or mental level comparable to what a BB should be at IMHO. Spunky Patience is a virtue and should be practiced but rarely is. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:10:26 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Time Christa writes: > > Hello Everyone, > I am actually addressing the list on behalf of one of my students this time. > He is conducting research on the average amount of time students spend in > training before they earn their first Dan. He is wanting to compare various > age groups as well as training styles. Hello Christa. Our particular art, Kong Shin Bup, has quite an elaborate curriculum, and it takes the adult students of my school about 4-5 years to reach first Dahn. Young children may take much longer. To keep their (young children) interest and goals on target, we do issue stripe rewards between belts. That makes the long time between belts a bit more palatable. Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:12:56 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: What is a Black Belt I continue to teach to my students that a black belt around a persons' waist is a symbol that said individual has made a commitment to a particular way of life. The way I characterize it is by teaching my students that we are all trying to figure out what this life is all about and there are a lot of ways to organize our efforts. Most of us spend the best portion of our lives just trying to find a good system by which we can most efficiently and effectively organize. That black cotton strip around my middle says that I have stopped bouncing from one system to another and have decided to make a home for myself in a particular approach to life. Is my decision good for everybody? I don't know. We have many such symbols including Roman collar, mala, beret, and stethoscope and I have not found a one-symbols-fits-all yet. For myself, though, the study of a warriors' ways and values seems to fit and I wear a black belt around my middle as a testiment to that position. Hope this helps. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:29:48 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Roots Michael writes: > In reality I would say that practically every martial art has Chinese roots. > China was practicing martial arts for 100's of years before Korea, and Korea > was practicing martial arts for 100's of years before Japan!! IMHO. Common sense tells me that martial arts developed wherever people lived and found a need to defend their lives or property. Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: Stickfighter27@cs.com Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 02:14:36 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: What is a Black Belt Hi Just wanted to throw my thoughts on what a black belt means to me.... When I first recieved my sho-dan back in 1991, I didnt have a grasp on what being a black belt is as I do today.....In fact I stoped all my training for many years, in between 91 till about here just recently about 97 I started training again just to recently pick up my 2nd dan..... But now I have a better and more serious approach on what being a Black Belt is. 1st its too show you have mastered the "basic" skills and shows you have proven them to someone of a higher rank that you have obtained the right to continue on with your training. 2nd, It shows that you have learnt self discipline and could stand on your own two feet if confronted in a situation that you have tried at all costs to avoid. 3rd, it gives you that chance to try to put some of that knowledge together and all those years of trainng together and pass it on...... to be proud of what you have achieved. 4th, I think that obtaining a black belt should show pride to you and too your instructor and your school. If you cannot wear the Black Belt in pride you shouldnt wear it at all... You must be proud of your dojo/dojang and your Instructor. 5th, You should also understand that having a Black Belt does not make you "superman" and that your not invinseble... Keep in your mind that you can be beat by many NON MARTIAL ARTIST.... I think alot of Black belts either fail to realize this or just dont want to acknowledge this.... that just because you are a holder of a DAN RANK that you cant be beaten on the streets by a Non Martial Artist in a confrontation.. I have seen it happen.....Hell its happend too me..... But I never go into an altercation first that I have not tried to solve in a non violent way... and think I can take any Man... I never underestimate ANYONE......And I think this is one of the biggest thing being a black belt holder should realize........YOUR STILL ONLY HUMAN just because you put on a Dobok/GI and wrap a black belt around your waist you suddenly get super powers.....NO it dont happen that way...... I think these are the essentials for realizing what a Black Belt is..... If you can face these facts and put your skill to knowlegable work and explain in detail why this or that technique is done in that manner and can pass that knowledge on and realize although Im a black belt Im still only human and can say that with Self -Pride, and Self Dignity, and Humility, and still maintain Discipline than you deserve to wear that Black Belt you soley Bought and Earnt... Cory B. 2nd Dan TKD/Karate ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:54:13 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Black Belt meaning Through hard training, a Black Belt is one who not only has unconscious competence in their *basic* physical techniques, but has also become aware of their own mental and spiritual state of being. Based on this, they now struggle daily to become a better person through continued hard training and an honest examination of how they treat others, and how they act and respond to various situations. They realize they have not only accomplished a specific goal, but that they also now more directly represent their art (all martial artists?) through their actions, words, and integrity. Mark Lasich Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 6:48:25 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #340 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.