From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #358 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 25 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 358 In this issue: the_dojang: belly-buttons the_dojang: Sip p'al gi the_dojang: Tai Chi~Kung Fu the_dojang: martial art link the_dojang: list slow ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:08:55 PDT Subject: the_dojang: belly-buttons Belly-buttons, yes, everyone has one, but mine is especially sensitive. Now before you think I'm bragging or a little/lot kinky, there is a good reason for my sensitive belly-button. In the last 8 or so years I've undergone two laproscopic (sp?) surgical procedures that went through the belly-button. At this point even the slightest contact to the belly-button area is rather uncomfortable. A light finger tap there is VERY noticeable, so you can imagine what a punch or kick to that area is like or a knee or elbow with body weight behind it during matwork. Anyone else have this 'interesting' experience? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Pratt" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:04:39 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Sip p'al gi Dear Bruce, You wrote: >> Thanks very much for adding in. Certainly if I had my choice I would rather pursue the older Ship Pal Ki than the modern 1960-s incarnation. That listing I mentioned in my earlier post (the one from a website of a Bronx, NY school) listed 18 "weapons" in the sense of a list of various strikes, tactics and trainings, but it seemed a rather slip-shod collection of disparate parts. Looking at the older tradition there are a couple of points I wouldn't mind pursuing. << Ah, I need to explain a little more. I presume you mean the 'older Ship Pal Ki' as the Chinese ma. I didn't say anything about the relative ages of the two arts but I presume Bruce is suggesting that the Chinese ma has been in Korea for a long time. This may not be true. Although historically there has been a Chinese community in Korea for a long time (First with the Han commandaries, Shilla almost became a Tang province once Koguryo was defeated, then through various traders and emissaries, the Mongols brought many Chinese with them, Choson became a de facto protectorate during the Hideyoshi invasion, and traders returned in large numbers when Choson was opened up in the 1860s), Park Chung-hee threw most Chinese out during the 1970s. The Chinese have since returned. A friend of mine who has studied Chinese arts more deeply than me suggests that Chinese mas have only made an appearance in Korea when the Chinese returned in the 1980s(?) and 1990s. >> 1.) The "18 Lohan Hands" which are primarily chi kung exercises are mentioned a couple of times as promoting health and well-being as well as contributing to the improved use of weapons. I mention this because the MYTBTJ, in the chapter on empty-hand training, seems to characterize empty-hand is little more than a nice way to improve ones' weapons skills. << I think that ties in nicely with my previous post about the ma manuals being about military techniques. >> 2.) I have found at least one notation in the website on Chung Moo Doe that indicates that the 18 Lohan Hands developed into the art known as "18 Lohan Fist" which I believe may have been a Northern Chinese System. [Currently I am using SHAOLIN LOHAN KUNG-FU (Khim & Draeger; Tuttle, 1979). Can anyone suggest another resource?]Draeger reasserts the issue of Northern Chinese arts emphasizing legs and conditioning ("Northern Shaolin is 70% legs.") If this is true there could be something here than provided a foundation for Korean empty-hand techniques but I would need more info on the Chin Na aspects of this art, yes? << I have also heard that there is supposed to be a north-south split in the Chinese mas with the northern styles (of which TKD is loosely grouped) focusing on kicking because of the horse-riding and leg-building mountain walking lives of the inhabitants. However, since TKD developed out of Karate it might be argued that the emphasis on kicking developed as a way to differentiate TKD from the predominately hand-orientated Karate. Note that Japan is also well covered with mountains and has a strong military-horse tradition. >> 3.) Perhaps weapons systems of the Kuk Sool practitioners could be of help. Many years back I had a passing interest in Chinese weapons and understood that Butterfly Knives were associated with a Southern Chinese style. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone examined the KSW sword material to see if they can identify distinct sword, long sword or saber movements? Has anyone attempted to research the use of fans as martial weapons? << Peasant weapons in Korea have tended to be farm implements. Since Korea has suffered relatively few invasions and civil wars there has been little sustained weapons development. Korean swords are normally either straight, double edged weapons or curved, single edged swords. Regards, Andrew ------------------------------ From: "Maureen" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:01:35 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Tai Chi~Kung Fu Any one out there who would like to give me some insight on these 2 styles. Are they Separate or combined in teaching/learning? Similar to TSD orTKD form styles? History or links would be most appreciated! ------------------------------ From: "Maureen" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:10:37 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: martial art link http://www.martialway.com/index.shtml ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 6:20:02 PDT Subject: the_dojang: list slow fyi, the list will be slow (but hopefully not down) for the next few days as I'll be out of town. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #358 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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