From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #364 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 29 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 364 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Ready or Not ? the_dojang: Re: Testing One Day Early the_dojang: Re: Testing the_dojang: RE: GM Ko the_dojang: Rude??? I think not. the_dojang: testing early the_dojang: RE: K-M stuff the_dojang: RE: Rearranging schedules the_dojang: Mcdojo's the_dojang: testing time the_dojang: testing II the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:28:24 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ready or Not ? In a message dated 6/28/2001 10:02:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << One of the major problems with teaching karate for $$$ is that many people think that they deserve to test just because they pay to train... What do you tell this type of person when she/he confronts you about not being eligible to test? >> They are not ready ... period. It is my decision as to who tests in my school ... not theirs. A lot of what I am teaching is just not the physical attributes of a martial artist ... but the mental as well ... and patience is one of them. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:37:11 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Testing One Day Early In a message dated 6/28/2001 10:02:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << No matter which side of the decision you favor, Testing or Grandma, you could then instruct with reward for making a 'good' decision, or with punishment for making a 'bad' decision. >> Sorry, but 100 year old Grandma's we are not surrounded with nor will be with us too much longer. I would have decided over the Grandma over a test any day of the week if it had been me ... I loved mine with all my heart and soul and I wish she was still here. There will always be another test. But for me to make an exception and test him one day early was not a hardship on me ... maybe for you it is, for whatever reason you choose to give ... but since it was my decision and my school I was doing it in and with my student ... I think it was a good choice. We all have choices in life ... I chose that choice. It was a good choice. His grandma is no longer alive ... and he had a special moment with her that he will remember forever. And he had a special moment with us, too, when we tested him one day early for his next rank level. He is a good kid, a leader here amongst his peers, good family, never a problem with me. Treat others with respect and you will be accorded the same. 2 cents worth of my thoughts, Illona ------------------------------ From: Richard Zaruba Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:38:19 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Testing > From: Chereecharmello@aol.com > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:59:33 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #362 > > One of the major problems with teaching karate for $$$ is that many people > think that they deserve to test just because they pay to train... > > What do you tell this type of person when she/he confronts you about not > being eligible to test? I have run into this problem a number of times with students and/or parents. Parents are the worst to deal with because they seem to think that if their child misses practice and doesn't train because of baseball, etc it will have no effect on their progress. I routinely tell them there is no martial arts season. I have three responses that I use depending on the attitude of the student and/or parent(s). The first one is in my school handbook and is always used. 1) "Dues allow you to learn and train at our dojang under the supervision of a qualified instructor, they are not a guarantee of promotion or testing." 2) We discuss what the requirements are for the next rank and where they or their child is at the present time. 3) "If all you want is a belt to show off the Century catalog sells them for $2.95. Please don't waste anymore of my time." The last one may seem a little harsh, but depending on the attitude of the student and/or parent, it is sometimes required to get through thick skulls. Interestingly, I have had to use the third one on several students who later went on and have become some of my best students. Rich _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba Department of Anatomy & Cell Biology University of North Dakota School of Medicine 501 North Columbia Road P.O. Box 9037 Grand Forks, ND 58202-9037 zaruba@medicine.nodak.edu 701.777.3952 office 701.777.2576 lab 701.777.2477 fax ------------------------------ From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:14:16 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: GM Ko << It's called Ko's Black Belt Academy and is run by a Grandmaster Ri Kon Ko. (http://www.kosblackbelt.com/home/default.htm) It say's on the schools webpage that Grandmaster Ko is an 8th Dan in TKD, a 6th Dan in Judo, and a 5th Dan in Hapkido. As I am always leary of ending up at a McDojang I was hoping someone out there might know/know of Master Ko and could confirm that he is a good instructer. Or if you know of any other good TKD/Hapkido schools in the Kansas City/Overland Park area.>> Despite any advice that you may be given you still need to go and visit GM Ko and watch a class or two to see if you fit in with the style of teaching and martial art being taught. GM Ko is a nice gentlebeing and a good martial artist. As a curiosity what makes you leary of a McDojang here? The fact that he holds a 8th in Taekwondo, a 6th in Judo and a 5th in Hapkido? GM Yong Chin Pak at Iowa State University holds very similar credentials (I believe 8th TKD, 7th Judo, and 7th Hapkido - though I could be wrong on those ranks now) and I have never heard anyone think he runs a McDojang. Michael Rowe Dan Il Kwan - Gym of Unity Unity Church of Omaha 3424 N 90th Street Omaha, Nebraska 68134 ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:30:45 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Rude??? I think not. It may be rude if you can afford it, but not if you're trying to make ends meet. Perhaps you've never been a college student. Kerry > From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:44:23 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: RE: Uniform > > < it from him. to me that is way to high! we have no patches on the uniform > either. it's just a plain white uniform of any weight we choose.>> > > Well just to let you know that is what I charge for a plain white uniform > as > well. > > Do as you wish in purchasing a uniform, you may find it cheaper somewhere > but you will not be supporting you club and instructor, which to me is a > bit > rude. Your instructor unless he/she is totally without merit deserves your > support and respect. > > ------------------------------ From: "Meghan Gardner" Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:45:56 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: testing early Patrick writes: <> I'd have to agree with this view as it pertains to my own students. I will accommodate my students for *pre-tests*... but not for tests. If they miss a test, for whatever reason, then they have to wait until the next one (usually about 3 months). If someone is simply too impatient to wait that long, then they should consider finding a different school. Patience is part of the journey. And no one is above refinement. As well, we have a minimum of three instructors sitting on the testing board during every single testing. Getting those three instructors together again simply to accommodate a single student who couldn't make a testing is not reasonable. I should also note, however, that I announce the test dates about 6 weeks ahead and will consider moving the date if too many testing candidates can't make that date. But once the date is finalized, it's set in stone. If we need to reschedule due to weather, we do so for the following week. Meghan Gardner Director Guard Up, Inc. www.guardup.com "Always carry love in your heart, and a knife in your pocket." me ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:55:40 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: K-M stuff Dear Spunky: ".... This is not true with Krav Maga skills, b/c their focus is on simple, quick effective ways to end the conflict and get away. No one or 3 step fighting drills, no chambering from the hips and no katas. Like one instructor said, the mugger who gets defended against is not going to complain that the defender looked bad, just that he/she was effective. If anyone is looking to supplement their MA training with skills for pure self-defense that can be learned quickly, but still need practice, Krav Maga is a good way to go. Just taking a couple seminars can open up new ways to use some of the skills taught in the MA and get some new skills....." Sounds like you found something that you were looking for. Congratulations. I would go so far as to say that you have identified something that will probably be a big favorite among the American population in years to come. In my mind I imagine two K-M trained individuals banging away at each other ala "eye-for-an-eye." As a matter of fact, isn't K-M a product of the Israeli culture (home of "eye-for-an-eye" consciousness)? How nice to see that no one has cluttered up the art with any of that mindless hyung training, or focus on technique, pre-occupation with ethic or philosophy, or - -- gawd forbid -- character development. Just good ol' fashion head-banging. Violence, aggresion and immediate gratification--- yep--- that oughta sell just fine in a country that has raised such activities to an artform. Hey, what do you think their weapons systems must look like? Do you suppose the traditionalists use rocks and sticks? Perhaps the progressives use Glocks or TECH 9-s, yes? And how about competition? You'll need to have competition to prove that it REALLY works, right? But then you will need to limit various sensitive areas or moderate the force of the techniques ("pull your punches") and some wag will come along and deride the watered-down competitive version as ineffectual and then extrapolate that the original art, by implication, sucks as well. Or how about we go back to the question of what happens if you are confronted with an opponent ala WWC? What happens if your mugger is a K-M practitioner as well? And then there is always the obvious question..... If you are going out to these seminars to learn economy of motion, combat deportment, application of technique and critcal evaluation of your skills, just what is it that you paying your MA teacher for? Sounds like maybe HE has found what HE's been looking for as well. Of course there IS one born every minute, yes? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:47:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Rearranging schedules Patrick says: > I just want to make a comment on the following scenario - not the people > involved . . . > > >One boy tested one day early because he had to go to San Diego for his > Grandmother's birthday party ... she was going to be 100 years old and > they > were going to have the newspaper out that day to take a big family picture > > and he wanted to be there. I thought that was a good reason to > reschedule > the test for that Friday night.< > > 1) Assuming the student asked for early testing, that is valuable > information about the student/family. It says "please rearrange your > schedule because our wants (New Belt & Grandma) are so very important to > ME/US. > This also says that the family recognizes certain milestones and events in life are important and deserve special consideration. I see nothing selfish here. > 2) Forcing the boy to chose would have told you much more about him and > his > family. Making hard choices builds character. > > No matter which side of the decision you favor, Testing or Grandma, you > could then instruct with reward for making a 'good' decision, or with > punishment for making a 'bad' decision. > And I think this says the instructor feels he/she has the moral high ground and the ability to decide what is good and bad for the family. Oh, please! > IMHO I can't think of a single reason for a person to test early - even > one > day. I do understand that many legitimate things may cause them to test > late. > > Getting in the WAY, > > Patrick > May I respectfully suggest we don't worry too much about things that "tell us something" about students and their families, and worry more about how our actions tell them about ourselves. Only my 2 cents worth, Kerry WTF TKD ------------------------------ From: Ellen P Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Mcdojo's Hello all - I'm curious to hear people on this list define a "Mcdojang"? And why are the places you train at/or run NOT "Mcdojang's"? And most importantly, how would someone just starting out in a MA such as TKD have any idea if they are training at a McDojang (especially when they have absolutely no prior knowledge of any MA's and may not be able to differeniate). I understand what is generally meant by this term on this list, but if anyone would like to indulge me further, it would be interesting to hear explanations/opinions about what is and what is not a Mcdojang. Thanks. EP __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: testing time Patrick wrote; <> My humble haiku(sp?) There is no late or early Just training... Train with Jung Do in your heart The rest is commentary Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: testing II <> This is one of the reasons, I switched to a "no-test fee" tuition structure. Yes my tuition is a little more, but it includes any and all test fees (except Dan tests). Students are told at enrollment that they will be invited to test whenever they are ready concurrent with a testing cycle. Why do I charge seperate for Dan exams? Because that is the only exam I forward fees to a NGB. All of my Blackbelts will receive the USKMAF Dan certificate when they earn it. So far no comlaints or confusion... Questions welcome off-list... Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 8:19:46 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #364 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.