From:      the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
To:        the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Subject:   The_Dojang-Digest V8 #365
Reply-To:  the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
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The_Dojang-Digest            Fri, 29 June 2001         Vol 08 : Num 365

In this issue:

       the_dojang: RE:Uniforms
       the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #363
       the_dojang: Re:   The_Dojang-Digest V8 #363
       the_dojang: Get your panties out of a wad...Episode #63
       the_dojang: Sweat
       the_dojang: TESTING
       the_dojang: Over 1 billion served...
       Re: the_dojang: Over 1 billion served...
       the_dojang: Re:   The_Dojang-Digest V8 #363
       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #364
       the_dojang: Re: What are we teaching here ?
       the_dojang: .
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Pil Seung!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael Rowe (outlook)" <Michael.Rowe@sitel.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:03:26 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: RE:Uniforms

<<It may be rude if you can afford it, but not if you're trying to make ends
meet.  Perhaps you've never been a college student.

Kerry
>>

Sorry have been a college student, and a poor one at that. Please $40 is not
expensive. 
If you are truly that poor you are in more trouble than that. I fought many
a time to makes ends meet at Iowa State University. I took 16 credit hours
and worked 8 Hours a day. I know the hardships that come in terms of money
on campus. However it is always about choices, you can choose to support
your instructor and your club or you can choose not to. I always supported
my club and instructor at ISU. 

Michael Rowe
Dan Il Kwan - Gym of Unity
Unity Church of Omaha
3424 N 90th Street
Omaha, Nebraska 68134 

------------------------------

From: Gregory Giddins <GGiddins@loronix.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:11:38 -0600
Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #363

>No matter which side of the decision you favor, 
>Testing or Grandma, you could then instruct with 
>reward for making a 'good' decision, or with 
>punishment for making a 'bad' decision.

Now that's an interesting statement.
What would the "punishment" be, exactly?

Do you typically punish your students for making value judgements in their
personal lives? 

"WHat?!?!?! You chose your grandma's birthday over MY CLASS?!?!?!?!  200
Pushups, and don't show your face in here for one week!  I can't believe the
nerve!"  I realize you said whichever side of the decision you favor, I just
picked one.  It could be replaced with:
"What!?!?!?!  You chose to come to class when your Grandma is having a
birthday?!?!?!  that's absurd, have you no morals?!  100 Pushups!"

This statement sounds very representative of a cult, not a karate class....
It is imposing an instructors value system not just on a student and their
performance in the dojang, but on the whole of their lives.  
That's a very dangerous area.

Greg G



===================================

>One boy tested one day early because he had to go to San Diego for his
Grandmother's birthday party ... she was going to be 100 years old and they 
were going to have the newspaper out that day to take a big family picture 
and he wanted to be there.   I thought that was a good reason to reschedule 
the test for that Friday night.<

1) Assuming the student asked for early testing, that is valuable 
information about the student/family. It says "please rearrange your 
schedule because our wants (New Belt & Grandma) are so very important to 
ME/US.

2) Forcing the boy to chose would have told you much more about him and his 
family. Making hard choices builds character.

No matter which side of the decision you favor, Testing or Grandma, you 
could then instruct with reward for making a 'good' decision, or with 
punishment for making a 'bad' decision.

IMHO I can't think of a single reason for a person to test early - even one 
day.  I do understand that many legitimate things may cause them to test 
late.

------------------------------

From: Chereecharmello@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:15:51 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re:   The_Dojang-Digest V8 #363

<<a light weight uniform costs us $40 if we buy 
it from him. to me that is way to high! we have no patches on the uniform either. it's just a plain white uniform of any weight we choose.>>

As noted, you can get a fairly decent uniform for much less. Just remember that the cheaper cotton uniforms are often NOT pre-shrunk and will get smaller with EVERY drying. Polyester blends last longer, but do not breath as well. I like a mid-weight, pre-shrunk cotton. 

To make them last longer, don't bleach your uniform or it will end up looking like you have a minor moth problem :0 ) Use a capful of amnonia to a 1/2 cup of water and poor it on the sweaty pit part of your uniform to eliminate oder and help keep it white BEFORE you throw it in the washer.

I do not like the cut of pro-force uniforms because the leg is a more narrow cut and limits my range of movement.

Trying to help (again)

Good Luck-
Cheree



------------------------------

From: "Craig Stovall" <craigstovall@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:13:25 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Get your panties out of a wad...Episode #63

Our resident purveyor of "Best Wishes" has once again blessed us with his 
wit and wisdom:

"How nice to see that no one has cluttered up the art with any of that 
mindless hyung training, or focus on technique, pre-occupation with ethic or 
philosophy, or - -- gawd forbid -- character development. Just good ol' 
fashion head-banging.  Violence, aggresion and immediate gratification--- 
yep--- that oughta sell just fine in a country that has raised such 
activities to an artform."

I think Warren Oates said it best during his excellent portrayal of Sgt. 
Hulka during the 80's ensemble comedy 'Stripes'..."Lighten up, Francis".

First, I want to thank the original poster for sharing their experience with 
Krav Maga.  It's a wonderful thing when we can shed our egos, put on the 
proverbial "white belt, and learn something new.  It's even more wonderful 
when that "something new" turns out to be something that strikes a chord 
within us.  Perhaps it filled some technical gap that was lacking within 
your current "toolbox"?  I can only speculate.  Suffice it to say that your 
post made it seem like you had a wonderful time, and I applaud you for 
getting out there and seeking some knowledge.  I can definitely relate to 
this since I've recently put on a white belt (for the third time), and am 
currently exploring some new martial territory.  Good for us.  Here's to our 
respective new journies (raising a cup of Gatorade).

Second, I want to congratulate Bruce for waking up on the wrong side of the 
bed for the 487th consecutive day.  I don't have the statistics in front of 
me, but I'm PRETTY SURE that this is a new record.  Let's all give him a big 
hand.

Hugs and Kisses,

Craig "Yeah, but you wouldn't call them a sucker to their FACE" Stovall



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------------------------------

From: "Yarchak, Mary Kay" <yarchakmk@MSX.UPMC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:44:21 -0400
Subject: the_dojang: Sweat

Re: Spunky's statement from #DD363 on Krav Maga < the training and exercise
is amazing.  I sweat thru pants and shirts every class, and I usually barely
break a sweat in my normal MA class where kicks and punches are called out
one by one.>

This may have jumped out at me because I could wring out both sweat band and
camisole the other night....

There may be reasons to look to another MA or self defense system to
supplement possible gaps in Tang Soo Do training but I haven't been in TSD
long enough to have found them.  If I do look around later, one thing I can
say for sure is that it will NOT be because TSD training is not intense
enough.  I (well, we, because it's definitely not just me) typically leave
class completely soaked and knowing that we worked.  Sometimes it's cardio,
sometimes it's muscle fatigue from working a particular muscle group
(working on kicking with proper form until you can't lift your legs anymore,
crunches, punches, pushups...), but it's almost always something.  There are
some classes where we are working with fine tuning particular techniques
that create less physical than mental "sweat" but these are rare.  Usually,
we do this for only a part of class and I leave drenched anyway.

What have other folks found in their "traditional MA" classes?  Is our
kyosanim torturing us above and beyond the call of duty? (wouldn't have it
any other way :-))

MK

------------------------------

From: "J. R. West" <hapkido@netdoor.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:01:49 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: TESTING

 I use a different approach to testing at my school.  Here, a 3rd dan is
responsible for each rank up to but not including 1st gup, and that 3rd dan
makes the final decision as to when a person is ready to test. Usually this
is decided by means of a complete "pre-test". where a student is advised of
a test date, or of any areas of training that must be improved and then
demonstrated at another abbreviated pre-test.  If a testing is called for,
the 3rd dan will arrange a time with one of the higher dans that are
responsible for conducting all gup tests (two 4ths and a 5th).  The test is
held during the hour long exercise portion of a class, and it may include
just that individual, or perhaps several  individuals depending on how many
folks are ready to test at that time.  All black belt tests are conducted in
front of me and all other dan grades in our school as well as any associated
schools that wish to observe.  A good rule of thumb is, any person selected
for testing WILL pass (or I will ask a certain 3rd dan why someone was
tested without being ready).  In 34 years of teaching, I have had only 2
failures, both on the same day for 3rd gup, which requires some brief
reading.  Technically they were both excellent, but couldn't answer some
basic questions about the reading they say they did prior to the test ( I
really read Moby Dick, I just can't remember what kind of animal he
was!...right!).  This works fairly well, especially since I don't have
different levels within belt colors.  With about 300 students, mostly adult,
this has been the best way to maintain the quality of the rank and file
student....J. R. West   www.hapkido.com

------------------------------

From: "Craig Stovall" <craigstovall@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:10:20 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Over 1 billion served...

Ellen wrote:

"I'm curious to hear people on this list define a
"Mcdojang"?"

Hmmmmm...well, a "McDojang" is kind of like a 280-pound transvestite at a 
bridal shower...hard to define, but easy to spot.

Let's see if I can help out here.  My little list is far from comprehensive, 
but nonetheless contains the primary warning signs.  I present for your 
reading enjoyment:

Stovall's Top Ten Signs that You May Be Training at a McDojang:

10.  Two of the higher ranking black belts are standing in the corner 
trading Pokemon cards, and debating the eternal question, "Who's 
badder...Goku or Vegeta?"

9.  You're forced to say "sir" and "ma'am" to people that were born during 
the Clinton administration.

8.  The head instructor refuses to come out of his office because his date 
to the prom just called things off.

7.  When asking the instructor, "How much do lessons cost?", you are 
answered with, "How much can you afford?".

6.  Your green belt test involved musical forms, flaming bricks, and the 
taking out of a second mortgage.

5.  Your headmaster's son is 5'5", 125 pounds,19-years-old, has a sixth 
degree black belt, and has trouble when sparring Bob, the 42-year-old tax 
accountant who usually shows up on Tuesdays at 7:00.

4.  Your teacher is a "Level 12 Instructor" in single stick, double stick, 
3-sectional staff, bo staff, Korean sword, nunchaku, throwing stars, 
advanced groundfighting, and rape prevention...all of which she picked up at 
a rigorous 4-hour workshop during your organization's annual "Black Belt 
Camp".

3.  Your teacher makes you feel like a wimp when he says, "You guys have got 
it easy!  Why...my teacher wouldn't even let us wear mouthguards and 
headgear for OUR non-contact point sparring".

2.  One hundred of your school's Yellow Pages ads laying end-to-end would 
stretch from San Jose to Portland.

And the #1 sign that you may be training at a McDojang...

1.  Hot pink uniforms!!!


Thank you, thank you...I'll be here all next week.

Craig "Please take this nonsense with a grain of salt" Stovall

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------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:44:19 PDT
Subject: Re: the_dojang: Over 1 billion served...

> And the #1 sign that you may be training at a McDojang...
> 
> 1.  Hot pink uniforms!!!

Hey now!  The same thing can happen by simply washing your dobok along with
several pair of your standard issue fire-engine red t-back underware...

:)

Ray Terry
raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com

------------------------------

From: ConcordTKD@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:19:44 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re:   The_Dojang-Digest V8 #363

<<a light weight uniform costs us $40 if we buy 
it from him. to me that is way to high! we have no patches on the uniform 
either. it's just a plain white uniform of any weight we choose.>>

Looks like I am under selling.  Our uniforms are ITF screned legs and back, and we embroider ITF UTSF patches on the front and school patch on the sleeve.

John 

------------------------------

From: Chereecharmello@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:16:28 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #364

Mc Dojang? This should begin an interesting thread...

The obvious definition could be a franchised karate school. It could also be 
a reference to promotion by $$$, not ability...the act of turning out 'Black 
Belts' like Happy Meals.

I belong to C.S. Kim Karate, a franchised school. The word franchise often 
cares with it many negative connotations in the realm of the MA's. However, 
as I mentioned many times before, my first experience w/ the Martial Arts was 
a negative one. It was a Japanese style taught in a modest dojo by a VERY 
UNprofessional man. At the time, this 'Master' had no affiliation with any 
organization and there was no where to turn when he wronged the students.

I would not trade my experience in my 'franchised' school for all the beans 
in Columbia. Not only does the organization certify and regulate who and what 
is taught, but it protects the students from having to deal with a bad, to 
say the least, instructor.

- -Cheree

------------------------------

From: MissIllona@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:29:45 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: What are we teaching here ?

In a message dated 6/29/2001 7:54:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:

<<This also says that the family recognizes certain milestones and events in
life are important and deserve special consideration.  I see nothing selfish 
here.>>

<<And I think this says the instructor feels he/she has the moral high ground
and the ability to decide what is good and bad for the family.  Oh, please!>>

<< May I respectfully suggest we don't worry too much about things that "tell
 us something" about students and their families, and worry more about how
 our actions tell them about ourselves. >>

Thank you, Kerry, what you said made me feel that what I am doing here at my 
school is all worthwhile.

A teacher should be there to help their students ... not hinder them.  I am 
not a God or Goddess ... and nothing is locked in stone here.  Flexibility is 
an important tool in being a teacher of many ... what one little thing you 
may have done in someone's life may be something they will remember and 
respect you for, for the rest of their life.  And it may in turn teach them 
how to be kind and courteous to others in times of need.

Our actions speak volumes as we go about our daily life in our dealings with 
others.  Where will your volume be put in the Library of Life?

But to each our own ... that is why there are so many different kinds of 
karate schools and teachers ... we all have our own way of reaching out to 
others and teaching.

Illona



------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:50:47 PDT
Subject: the_dojang: .


------------------------------

End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #365
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