From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #368 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 30 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 368 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Regular Classes the_dojang: Becoming a moderator the_dojang: DoJu JI BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from ["Robert Martin" the_dojang: Re: Testing, fees, etc. the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #364 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #367 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:32:56 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Regular Classes In a message dated 6/30/2001 8:47:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The story below struck a cord with me with a similar problem... The lazy student that wants to test but is not a very active student. To solve that problem we stated that a student must be an 'active student' in order to test and we designated an active student as one who averages 3 classes a week during the entire required time period before the examination. Suddenly, all those border line students started showing up to class more:) >> Good idea ... have you ever shown them their attendance record when they ask? I have and some have been surprised. They really thought they were coming in consistently and when shown the record they started coming in more regularly. They conveniently 'forget' the times they 'don't' come in with one excuse or another. Illona ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Becoming a moderator Ray noted: Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 8:04:53 PDT Subject: the_dojang: 489 > Thank you for sharing what passes for "clever" at you particular level > of development. ... Looks like the 489th consecutive day for Bruce. :) Bro. Bruce, please lighten up. Please don't become another "Glenn". Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com> Response: I miss those Glenn wars. Actually, the character I recently wrote about in my recent forays into Seattle, Tacoma, Olympia, etc., was named Glenn. Coincidence. Well, the Pacific Northwest is interesting. Very little bugs and the weather at this time is just perfect for me. Not humid, with a hint of cool breeze. I am finishing up my Mike Hammer series on another list. In fact, one wreckingcrew member, who is an Aussie, trained with GM Canete and Geoff Booth. He is writing some of his adventures and actual gun play he experienced in the PI. He is a body guard for VIPs in the Philippines. Writing this from McChord AFB, Evergreen Inn. Bye, Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:10:41 PDT Subject: the_dojang: DoJu JI FYI, I received a phone call this AM from Hapkido's GM, JI Han-jae. His new dojang, in the Philly area, is located at: World Sin Moo Hapkido Association 1400 Willow Ave. Elkins Park, Pennsylvania 19027 215-782-3008 FAX = 215-782-3068 Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:16:18 PDT Subject: BOUNCE the_dojang: Non-member submission from ["Robert Martin" Forwarded message: From: "Robert Martin" Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:23:25 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #364 > From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov > Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:55:40 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: RE: K-M stuff > > > > Sounds like you found something that you were looking for. Congratulations. > I would go so far as to say that you have identified something that will > probably be a big favorite among the American population in years to come. > In my mind I imagine two K-M trained individuals banging away at each other > ala "eye-for-an-eye." As a matter of fact, isn't K-M a product of the > Israeli culture (home of "eye-for-an-eye" consciousness)? How nice to see > that no one has cluttered up the art with any of that mindless hyung > training, or focus on technique, pre-occupation with ethic or philosophy, or > - -- gawd forbid -- character development. Just good ol' fashion head-banging. > Violence, aggresion and immediate gratification--- yep--- that oughta sell > just fine in a country that has raised such activities to an artform. Hm, I note a little anger here. It seems that some people on this and another list have problems with simply replying to others' posts without vitriol. Sorry I seemed to hit a sore point with you, Bruce. Unintentional to be sure. What I was trying to get across and obviously failed with you, was the point that for pure self-defense techniques that can be learned in months vs years, I found KM to be a good system. There have been comments re: other people's systems, Tony Blauer, Peyton Quinn etc. I was adding my findings to the list in case anyone had the same frustrations as I and some other students I have talked to in traditional MA have experienced. That frustration would involve the years it takes to get the skills down well enuff to be useable in a self-defense situation. In other words, if it makes it easier to swallow, I was not promoting KM as an alternative MA, but rather as a self-defense course for people who have found that their MA skills take years to make proficient, and getting mugged, attacked or raped may happen before then. In 6 months, KM could give a student enuff simple knees, feet and hand strikes to help them in self-defense. However, in that same period of time in a traditional MA, the student would not be prepared in the same way. I have been in 3 different arts, and had friends and acquaintances in other arts and schools, who have expressed the same feelings. After 6-12 months, they know more than they did, but the emphasis has been more on forms, and set fighting patterns. Nothing wrong with that, but again, it's martial "arts", and it takes time and patience. I just wanted to offer a suggestion for people who enjoy their MA classes, I certainly do, but would like an addition to the things learned at traditional dojangs. In addition, KM was developed by a Czech Jew who came to Isreal after WWII. The Isrealis had to develop an army out of both women and men, most of which had no fighting experience. To do this, they needed a system that could be learned within a relatively short time period. One that was effective but did not take years to acquire. KM was the result. It is now used by the FBI and numerous law enforcement agencies all over the US as well as in other countries such as New Zealand. It has been praised by these agencies as allowing their members to control potentially volatile situations with minimal force and harm to both arresting officer and person being arrested. > And how about competition? You'll need to have competition to > prove that it REALLY works, right? But then you will need to limit various > sensitive areas or moderate the force of the techniques ("pull your > punches") No competition involved. Of course, like anything else, a person may not successfully defend him/herself with KM. Depends on the circumstances, training, and reaction to the adrenaline. However, at least the tools are given and can be learned in a short time period. Still, the tools obviously have to be practiced to keep the skills ready for use. > and some wag will come along and deride the watered-down > competitive version as ineffectual and then extrapolate that the original > art, by implication, sucks as well. Sucks? Oh yeah, that old argument that occupied the digest. Like I said, some people just have a hard time exchanging ideas. > Or how about we go back to the question > of what happens if you are confronted with an opponent ala WWC? What > happens if your mugger is a K-M practitioner as well? And then there is > always the obvious question..... See above for response to this old subject. :-) > > If you are going out to these seminars to learn economy of motion, combat > deportment, application of technique and critcal evaluation of your skills, > just what is it that you paying your MA teacher for? My instructor (s) have done really good jobs with most of their students. But they don't teach self-defense skills to be learned in a few months time. they emphasize patience and training. They are looking to give the students tradition, as well as inner MA. Also, as one digest member recently responded, what is wrong with emptying your cup (putting on a white belt) and learning something new? Bruce Lee, by no one's definition an idiot or sucker, opened himself up to all things to search for those techniques that worked. He looked at all asian MA as well as western boxing. His system was ever evolving and his philosophy was rich in meaning for today's MA. He felt the MA should keep an open mind and be open to new skills and pick those that matched his/her natural abilities. I think this is a great idea. Search for the techniques that work for your own individual body whether in one MA style or several or in a self-defense system. > Sounds like maybe HE > has found what HE's been looking for as well. Of course there IS one born > every minute, yes? Don't know what "HE" refers to, but as for born every minute, I believe that email fosters the tendency to write nasty comments that one would never say to another's face b/c it would be considered quite rude. A wise person once said, whoever loses his temper and resorts to insults or nasty comments, loses the argument b/c he/she has nothing more to contribute. Don't take my KM seminar write-up so personally. Wasn't attacking you or anyone else. Just offering up an opinion. For those interested in investigating KM, their website is www.kravmaga.com Spunky > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Wmakarate@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:43:26 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #367 In a message dated 6/30/01 8:48:11 AM, Joshua Cather writes: << My opinion of what a Mc-Dojang is; Is a Martial Art school with no substance. They (Mc-Dojangs) are just there. Comparable to a bowling night, they only workout maybe twice a week or less. Their classes are easy and repetitive, ...... when I have seen some green belts that are better than some of these instructors......I guess some schools have it and some don't, and your lucky if you get one that does. ...... I have been doing a lot of soul searching lately about where I am and what I want to do with my life. I want to teach full-time and that's all I want to do, but of course I'm afraid to get started. I do have a full-time job right now and I don't have time to do both. I feel I would have so much to offer my students. I don't want to let my knowledge go to waist, but I don't want to make any financial mistakes that could ruin me. I guess what my question is, is how did some of you out there get started? Is there any advice any of you veterans can give about starting a school? >> I guess I am a veteran - been in martial arts since 1977, and, with my wife, have run a successful, profitable full time professional school since 1991. As I perused your comments, I saw a lot about what YOUR needs/wants/knowledge/etc. are, but nothing about what your prospective students needs/drives/wants might be. People begin (and continue in) martial arts for a wide variety of reasons. Parents are usually much less concerned about the degree of physical ability their kids attain than they are about the attributes of focus, discipline, self confidence, etc. that they are developing. It's painful to realize and admit. but the largest "McDojang" franchise chain(s) are often far superior at providing these benefits to their students than their competitors are (that's why they are successful - they're meeting a need and providing the desired benefit. And no, I'm not a franchisee of anyone.) Adults are often more interested in fitness and to a lesser degree self defense. Neither group is particularly interested, for the most part, in the tournament level competition that many black belts and instructors value so highly. For both groups, twice a week is often plenty - adults have families, jobs, etc. Kids have school, scouts, soccer, etc. As much as we might wish it, only a small percentage of your students are going to become those "martial arts fanatics" that most of us on this list probably are. The first (and perhaps most important) step when considering whether or not to go "full time" is to ask and answer yourself whether you can adapt to this mind-set and put the perceived needs of your students and their parents first. Most instructors won't or can't - that's one reason why there are so few really financially successful schools and instructors out there. (There's a place for them, too - if you want to teach students that have the same mindset as you - whatever it is - by all means do so, in your back yard, garage, community center, etc. Just don't expect to go full-time and make a living.) Till you can answer that question of adaptation in the affirmative, don't quit your day job. Respectfully, Mike Anderson Goshin Karate & Judo Academy/Goshin Retention Products 6245 E Bell Rd #120 Scottsdale, AZ 85254 Phone 480 -951-2236 fax 602-971-9788 www.goshinproducts.com email goshinproducts@aol.com - ask for your email catalog! ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:37:35 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #368 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.