From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #371 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 2 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 371 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #370 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #368 the_dojang: Testing the_dojang: Re: Thinking too much the_dojang: combatives the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #370 the_dojang: RE: A thought on Thinking the_dojang: Training vs Grandmothers the_dojang: Thinking too much the_dojang: AAU Taekwondo Newsletter July 2001 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:00:21 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #370 Rudy wrote: From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:42:41 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Combative arts Dakin writes: > The problem with this is that > when teaching combatives as KM does, you have to limit your clientele. > You can do this by only teaching the police or military, or you > can limit it by being VERY selective of the students you teach. Hi Dakin. Most combative art schools I have seen DO have limited clientele. It is the same with schools that are a bit tougher on handing out belts (or are otherwise a bit more selective on promoting and enrollment). It seems to be a self-limiting situation. What scares me a bit is to hear that this sort of thing (KM) is being taught to Police. IMHO, the adrenilin pumping action of such arts may limit the ability to of an officer to think before he jumps into action. The very idea of combative arts is rapid fire reaction with mega force.>>> What is so scary about teaching those who come into contact with the very worst of society in dangerous situations? That type of reaction is what is needed to survive lethal confrontations with the hard criminal element encountered on the streets. If you must think about what to do when assaulted , then by the time you decide he has your sidearm and has probably made your wife a widow and kids orphans. The adrenaline training is what you need to ensure you will react under duress. <<>> LOL, another armchair police expert who has all the answers. All you see is what the media has chosen to give you without seeing the whole incident. police jumping all over a "person already prone" is a rarity. Ive yet to see that happen in anything other than a riot situation where they were resisting a lawful order to disburse (sit in, traffic blocking etc) Many times swarming is the prefered option aloowing you to overwhelm and subdue an offender with out reorting to striking him. The multiple officer techiniques is too powerful and stops further agression. As far as cruisers getting in eache others way, it's unaviodable as chases are dynamic constantly changing events. the use of alot of cars aids in creating a rolling road block to slow and shut down the highway in the event the purp crashes. <<>> Well at least we know the basis of your knowledge. <<>>>> So, youve taught for free as a community service? or to draw in more revenue? Cause you taught for free doesnt make it right for you to criticise something for which you know absolutely jack s__T about. If you want to be "supportive to LEO"S " like you say you were in the past whynot attack the yelolow journalism of the press that shapes and distorts the truth and sway the public with lies,innnuendos and fabrication. Just .02 cents from a Police Officer (who can control himself from jupming on prone people.) Jack Ouellette MooYeKwan BB. ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #368 "Parents are usually much less concerned about the degree of physical ability their kids attain than they are about the attributes of focus, discipline, self confidence, etc. that they are developing. " Of course this must be tempered with the parents' natural desire to push their little stars into becoming Black Belts before the age of 5. McDojang caters to this. We have had parents pull their kids out of our program because they were upset that another child, who started at the same time, was progressing faster. At a McDojang, all students, regardless of ability, receive their belts at a predetermined pace. Neal Konecky ===== "Our government, conceived in freedom and purchased with blood, can be preserved only by constant vigilance" William Jennings Bryan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:12:39 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Testing Miss Illona writes: > So what I am looking for is a way to pre-test everyone ... and hand them a > report on what they need to work on ... but not do it by scheduling it for a > special day all the time ... something to do in the classroom. Hello Illona: My bi monthly check ups are done instead of the regular class we normally teach at that time, so no one needs to reschedule for a test. I simply made a form that covers an entire year worth of training for each student. In fact, my nifty little program prints this form out as a student joins. The database has his or her entire personal profile on it, and it also adds the additional information (promotions, good/bad attendance etc.) as time goes on. What I really like is the fact that I can compare any improvement or lack thereof from one check up to the next. After the bi monthly check up, I carefully look over the form for any problems, and I can justify any decisions I make by simply pointing out problem areas. In fact, my Instructors take each student aside to discuss the entries made on the check list. In your case, you would need to do this yourself. I know this won't be easy doing it by yourself. As far as programs are concerned. I too had not found what I needed. Filemaker Pro is a relational database program that you modify to suit yourself. It's possibilities are only limited to your own needs or imagination (if you can do some minor programming). The program is dual platform and can be had in both: Windows and Mac. Best wishes Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:03:08 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Thinking too much > I need help on something. I just learned my new form (Pyung ahn e dan) > three weeks ago. I still have trouble with it. A friend of mine (that > helps me sometimes after class) said I "think" too much when I do the > form or tech and I screw it up. She said to not "think" about it as much. This brought me some great memories... back in 1987 when I was a white belt our instructor (now deceased) taught us the first form, Palgwe Il Jang. During one class, he asked me to perform it alone before the front of the whole group. I thought to myself "gosh, what I`m doing here, a pattern before all these guys, how does it start?" and I just went there, made Charyot Kyungneh, then Junbi, and... the next thing I remembered was assuming the Junbi again after the pattern was finished... This is how I discovered "no-mind" attitude... :) - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: "TNT-Police Combatives ." Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:55:53 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: combatives Greetings All, To begin, I am not hacking on the author(Mr.Timmerman), but responding to some excellent and fairly prevalent observations...no aninmosity intended or received from his previous post. <> Yes it is self limiting...and I make very good money doing it while keeping my brothers and sisters in LE(Law Enforcement) safe by teaching them what they need to know. I teach civilians too (regular MA), but enjoy the very specific clientel of LE and the high-speed-low-drag training. Besides, what job out there do you get cops that come to you and you can beat them up without being arrested! <> What scares me is how people view "actual" street application of technique. Fight any crackheads lately? I have. Compliant uke they are not! As for the adrenaline, would you resort to non-adrenaline techniques to protect yourself? As in normal life, use of force in LE goes from 0 to 100 in a fraction of a second. When there is time to think, the threat is not that great. When the threat is ominous and real, the quick, violence of action is needed to neutralize the threat. Drilling on worst case scenario type situations that require rapid reaction with serious physical force is what it takes to get the job done and go home to your family. Police use of force is pretty standard nationwide (U.S.) Police are required to use the least force necessary to stop the threat....or else BIG lawsuits happen. Sure there are excessive force cases. Some officers make mistakes, others are just plain bad...but there are millions of uses of force every year that go unnoticed because the action taken was correct and proper. We charge LE to protect us, but then want to limit their ability to do so by making them do touchy feely aikido magic (I attended one of those ridiculous courses lately). Well, the gentle flowing non-injurious techniques that take years to master are not condusive to those who need the ablility to save their hindquarters NOW. The meat-and-potatoes self-defence and offense are all most LEO's have time for, because of all the other certifications and skills needed for the job. Expert driver, interpreter of state and federal law, mediator, translator, protector, shoulder to cry on, complaint department, professional court testifier, writing specialist, chain of evidence custodian, RADAR operator, LIDAR operator, rotating shift worker, medic/first aid responder, obstacle course runner, training officer, crash reconstructionist, visitor info specialist, shotgun/handgun/beanbag/rifle/subgun/tazer/OC/baton/LEDS-NCIC adept...I could add more, but these are 'basic' skills of the average cop. Many would like to have hand to hand training 3 or 4 times a week, but simple do not have time to fit it in. Luckily, I teach both civilian and LE, and have a chance to train. I teach my department's officers 8 hours a month because I am in a position to mandate the training. We are lucky to have admin that allows the time. <> The pigpile or polyester pile is a proud and prolific part of LE....lol. I agree, that this shouldn't happen, but I have to say yes there is the need to pig pile. Why? Because officers don't remember how to do all the cool touchy feely stuff that the city/county council or admin mandated for their training, so they resort to what they know works...strength in numbers and pure donut weight. The right training (like KM, and many other systems can offer--including the more 'combat' oriented HKD/Jujutsu systems) actually helps these situations by giving the officer the right tool for the job, instead of something that works in theory or that works with years of repetition training. Even the most complicated moves work...they just take longer to master. Also, please don't rely on TV to tell you who the 'finest' are...talk to one in person. And again, crackheads can be suprisingly strong, agile, and do NOT feel pain. Look reeeeal close at the guy on the ground in the videos and see if he is lying there peacefully or spitting fire and actively resisting, and belay judgement until the situation is intimately understood. <> I agree somewhat, but that is a great topic for the Police Pursuit Forums..besides...all those twinkly lights give me happy thoughts of Christmas time!!! It is 1AM, my lunchtime is over, and I am feeling the need to write some traffic tickets, and take someone who needs it to the grey bar hotel. Back to lurk mode, Mark Gajdostik _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:01:42 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #370 In message <200107012118.RAA23783@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com> you write: > >From: "Rudy Timmerman" >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:42:41 -0400 >Subject: the_dojang: Combative arts > >Dakin writes: >> The problem with this is that >> when teaching combatives as KM does, you have to limit your clientele. >> You can do this by only teaching the police or military, or you >> can limit it by being VERY selective of the students you teach. > >Hi Dakin. >Most combative art schools I have seen DO have limited clientele. It is the >same with schools that are a bit tougher on handing out belts (or are >otherwise a bit more selective on promoting and enrollment). It seems to be >a self-limiting situation. Just thought I'd say - not all martial arts students are going to leave your schools if you don't advance them regularly. I have been at the level of green belt for almost a year and will remain until I test in December - my kicks have problems and I am perfectly happy with my instructor's advice not to test at the last two opportunities. I feel I have made progress, just not enough yet to test. And when I have made sufficient progress, my instructor will let me test. No point in testing before I'm ready.... I think genuinely interested students will respect you more if you suggest to them that they wait before testing if they aren't ready. Donnla. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Computer Laboratory, New Museums Site, Graduate Student Pembroke St., Cambridge CB2 3QG, U.K. tel: +44-1223-334619 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~dbn20/ "An eyelash! How could you be so careless!" - Jude Law, Gattaca ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:37:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: A thought on Thinking Dear Damien, Dizz, et al: "....>How can I change the "thinking too much" to just "doing"? Any advice will >be most helpful. Thanks in advance..." For the sake of playing both the Devils' Advocate as well as providing an alternate line of thought, I suggest that you may want to consider the following line of thought. Perhaps you are in a place where "thinking too much" is exactly what you want to be doing. I have been part of an on-going dialogue regarding Forms (Kata) on an alternate Net (SABAKI) which is predominantly oriented towards Japanese concussive arts such as To-De, Karate and Kempo. The contributions regarding the role of Forms in training and development of ones' MA ability can run all the way from "necessary evil" and drudgery to a near-religious experience and the mainstay of an art. I tend to view hyung as a resource from which I draw answers regarding biomechanics of my art, suggestions for applications, range of motion and conditioning, and a connection with a particular heritage or tradition. To state it susinctly, hyung to me are not unlike a pamphlet I pull out of the reference section of my local library which points me in a particular direction. Having said this, I will conclude by saying that "thinking" is what I would guess you would want to be doing when you are training--- thinking, asking questions, comparing notes and sharing. You have the rest of your MA career to polish your "combat mind" and develop those razor-sharp reflexes and murderous techniques for dealing with all the WWF maniacs, militia fanatics and sex-offender parollees who will be ambushing you on your way home after work this afternoon. In the meantime I would encourage you to take your time and truely examine what it is your are doing. Unless, of course, you happen to be an American MA student attending one of our stalwart McDochang. In this case, of course, there is never enough time, and you would want to be VERY careful not to invest yourself or your resources too heavily. Afterall what would you have left over to feed to many wonderful superficial distractions in our society if you took your training THAT seriously? :-) Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Pratt" Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:43:02 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Training vs Grandmothers Dear all, I have to side with the many posters who have sensibly put their families before training. I would just like to add that this would also be the default answer of any Korean instructor worth his salt. The family, and in particular grandparents, lie at the top of pile of those who should be respected. No instructor could / should claim prerogative over a grandparent's birthday and retain respect. Just my penny's worth, Andrew ------------------------------ From: miguel@garciatkd.com Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:53 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Thinking too much - ------=_unique-boundary-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT One more recommendation. IMHO, when doing your poomse, do it one movement at a time, pasue 15 secs. between moves in the correct stance and at the terminus point to develop muscle memory. Next, learn the form, not the room. Do it in all four directions, then do it at angles. Also, do the form whlie someone is distracting you by either taliking at you and trying to get you attention and maybe actually disturbing you physically. Lastly, do it a million times. Don't look at the floor, or the ceiling or the wall. That's what it takes to not mess up on your foms. How many of you mess up Il-chung or Chun-gi? Now, if you really want to think, figure out and remember: how many square stances in form number x, how about t-stances, what technique is move 17? What do theses series of moves represent in a self-d situation? Do the form backwards (#16 - #1). Miguel http://garciatkd.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 7:54:12 PDT Subject: the_dojang: AAU Taekwondo Newsletter July 2001 Forwarded message: AAU Taekwondo Newsletter - http://www.aautaekwondo.org Greetings! Here is your AAU Taekwondo Newsletter for July 2001. AAU Taekwondo competitions feature both Olympic and Point sparring, and traditional Taekwondo forms including: WTF, ITF, and TSD/MDK forms may be performed. For more information visit http://www.aautaekwondo.org Send comments or questions to: DMazor@mediaone.net In This Issue: *Head to Camp to Train with the Best! *Motivate for Peak Performance *AAU Tournaments & Events Schedule *Official’s Corner: A Coach’s Role *Head to Camp to Train with the Best! If you are serious about improving your sparring skills, don’t miss your chance to train with the best! Olympic Gold Medallist Steven Lopez and Jean Lopez will be aiming to make you better than you ever thought you could be at the AAU Taekwondo Gold Medal Training Camp. The AAU camp will run August 23-26, 2001 at Disney's Wide World of Sports Athletic Complex in Orlando, Florida. For more information contact Michael Friello at 518-372-6849 or Email: MFriello@aol.com *Motivate for Peak Performance Whether you are heading to this year’s Nationals, or just need a pick-me-up to keep your training on track, sometimes having a motivational saying gives that extra little mental boost. Here’s a selection of sayings. Maybe one will inspire you to a gold medal. Trust your hopes, not your fears. The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond into the impossible. The road to success is always under construction. Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. There is a big difference between wanting to and willing to. Winning is seeing improvement in yourself. You can always better your best. Your toughest opponent is in the mirror. The harder your work, the luckier you get. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. Only those risking to go far will ever know how far they can go. There is always room at the top. For more training tips visit: http://www.aautaekwondo.org *AAU Tournaments & Events Schedule July 4-7, 2001 2001 AAU Youth & Adult National Taekwondo Championship Cobo Center, Detroit, Michigan. For tournament info contact: Mike Friello MFriello@aol.com August 1-4, 2001 AAU/USA Junior Olympic Games Hampton Roads, VA. Contact Michael Friello: 518-372-6849 MFriello@aol.com August 23-26, 2001 AAU Taekwondo Gold Medal Training Camp Featuring Olympic Gold Medallist Steven Lopez and Jean Lopez Disney's Wide World of Sports Athletic Complex, Orlando, FL. Contact Michael Friello: 518-372-6849 MFriello@aol.com September 2001 AAU National Convention & National Taekwondo Sport Committee meetings, Hollywood, FL. Contact Michael Friello: 518-372-6849 MFriello@aol.com October 2001 AAU Taekwondo National Team Trials, Location: TBD, Contact Michael Friello: 518-372-6849 MFriello@aol.com November 1-4, 2001 AAU Taekwondo Open National Championship Disney's Wide World of Sports Athletic Complex, Orlando, FL. Contact Michael Friello: 518-372-6849 MFriello@aol.com Official’s Corner: A Coach’s Role I serve on the AAU Taekwondo Executive Committee as the National Chief Referee, but that title is a little misleading. Along with the other members of the Executive Committee I help initiate policies that are farther-reaching than that of officiating, and certainly of primary importance is that of the coaches, who fall under the auspices of the office of National Chief Referee. Along with most everyone else, I think the coaches have a tremendous responsibility at our competitions. But we need to maintain an orderly tournament so there are a number of requirements to which coaches must adhere. As we make final preparations for our 2001 AAU Taekwondo Nationals in Detroit I’d like to review these procedures. Only that athlete’s coach may protest a match. We do not allow coaches from “across the floor” or “from the stands” to come onto the floor to make ANY inquiries regarding play. A coach may NEVER enter the ring, except to take one step into the ring at the completion of the match to communicate his/her desire to the center referee to lodge a formal protest. There’s a $25 fee required when the protest is presented which is refundable ONLY if the protest is upheld. A coach may not come to his coach’s chair once play has started, nor can they leave that chair at any time during the match unless the center referee specifically approves it. The coach MUST be present when the outcome of the match is announced. Coaches may not exchange places once play has started. Coaches are allowed to shout encouragement and instruction to their respective athletes during play, but may not articulate derogatory remarks about the other athlete and/or coach, nor can they make disparaging gestures. Finally, coaches are required to have attended 1) a local seminar this year where a recognized AAU Taekwondo Clinic Administrator has conducted a full seminar on the 2001 rules of competition, 2) actually officiated and/or coached at an AAU Taekwondo-sanctioned tournament, and 3) attended the national clinic held on Wednesday, July 4th at the host hotel in Detroit. Only when all three criteria are met will a coach be issued a coach’s pass. I have personally seen at other nationally run tournaments where “coaches” come out of the stands to protest a match. These same “coaches” who are often addressed as “Master….” have then taken the time to berate an official in a given ring. At AAU Taekwondo this has never happened, and it never will! By requiring all of the coaches to meet the criteria outlined here (and by the way: I require the same of the officials) we avoid having confrontations such as these at our venues. We strive for safe, fair competition, free of politics, and a lot of folks work diligently to ensure this continues. Rick Blair serves on The AAU Taekwondo Executive Committee as the National Chief Referee. A sixth-degree black belt, he is also the Central Association Chairman, currently residing in Chicago, IL. He can be reached at rblairtkd@aol.com ************************************************************** *Special Introductory Offer Exclusively for AAU Members from Summit Flexible Products. Buy 50 or more CardioFlex™ or CardioFlex Twin martial art mats and get tapered safety edge strips FREE. Call 888-FOR-MATS or e-mail: summitinfo@aol.com ************************************************************** ______________________________________________________________ The AAU Taekwondo Newsletter is brought to you by the AAU Taekwondo Program at http://www.aautaekwondo.org edited by David Mazor: DMazor@mediaone.net ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 7:55:17 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #371 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.