From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #375 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 3 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 375 In this issue: the_dojang: Re:Formless stuff the_dojang: audible breathing the_dojang: Re:Misc Stuff the_dojang: Reason's for starting MA the_dojang: Re: Form Practice the_dojang: Re: Mini-Vacation the_dojang: Re: Musical Forms the_dojang: Re: Forms orientation the_dojang: disturbing display the_dojang: Re: Character building the_dojang: Rude or not the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #373 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:36:56 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Formless stuff Dear Cheree: "...Do it in all four directions, then do it at angles..." I liked your response to the above comment. GM Koo has been known to take someone who has become too mechanical in executing a particular sword form and make them perform the hyung at a 45 degree angle to the axis of the room. Its amazing how quickly their Form comes un-raveled, and gawd help them if they stop. There is nearly no way to reorient in order to continue a partially executed Form under those conditions if the individual is truely dependent on the environment. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "john sodihlhxh" Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 22:19:42 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: audible breathing <<had no breathing, meaning they didn't breath at all in a controlled >fashion during technique. >>>> on this subject im curious how the "list"ers feel about audible breathing. I have seen many martial artist practice a loud breathing method during poomse. You can hear them blow air out for every punch or block. Do you like this? Not like it? have an explanation for it? I personally have been taught to breath normally without making any addititonal sound other than the normal sounds of breathing. not to say that you cant hear my breathing during hard rounds in the ring or on a bag. thanks Bill Evans _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:55:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Misc Stuff Dear Thomas: "...Speaking as someone who works in a state penitentiary, I'll take that. (And you can send it to me right now, since I was posted in the Pen Hospital the day after one got tagged. Bled for a week.)...." Thank you. It was worth the sawbuck just to have my belief in God reaffirmed. I am reminded of the scene from PATTON where the general advises a sorely wounded dog-face of having seen the remains of a German soldier less its head. Every once in a while its nice to remind people who complain that the Deity is a lousy bookkeeper that though He does not check His books everyday,most certainly He DOES check them.:-) On the other hand I don't know what to tell you about people who don't breath during execution of a technique. Boxers, runners, dancers, golfers, singers, tennis pros, archers and riflemen--- they all examine and cultivate their breathing patterns. Must be a macho thing such as not wanting the partner to see that one is huffing and puffing through the training. Personally, I make a lot of noise when I am training, and if I'm the one you draw as a training partner then you deal with it, or move on to someone who enjoys turning colors while practicing their art. Its a free world (sorta). :-) Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:16:26 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Reason's for starting MA From: "Patrick L" <> Hummmm... I was very athletic and quick, played varsity football and track in high school. I was very strong for my size (only 130#, lightest guy on the team) and it was like running into a brick wall with some of the guys I played with. I was recovering from a broken foot when I thought about other sports and considered trying Gymnastics, but saw some karate guys working out and it looked very interesting. It was very physical, detailed, showed skill, was personal, and you didn't have to compete against others to be good, it was all up to you, but of course you could compete against others as well. Seemed to be very well suited for me and my build. I got home and told my sister about it, who was talking to boyfriend at the time. The boyfriend (who was already an expert gymnast) was about to test for his 2nd gup in TKD and invited us to come watch. He was very good. The karate guys I saw didn't do forms, just jumping around kicking and sparring. He demonstrated Tekki/Chulgi/Naihanchi Cho-dan. When I saw that, I knew "That's what I want to do!". The rest is history - after hours of football practice everyday my sister would pick me up and we'd go practice TKD for another couple of hours. HER motivation was different than mine, she liked this guy, and was fascinated by another guy who had also trained there. (boys were her motivation) She stopped after a year, I continued. My motivation had nothing to do with self defense. I was used to banging heads with the big guys and could bench press over twice my weight. I liked the athleticism, skill, talent involved in doing martial arts. To me, self-defense is a byproduct of my training, not the reason for it. It could have easily been fencing, gymnastics (I was way too tight for gymnastics) or any other physical art (not ballet...) I just choose TaeKwonDo. Later I dabbled into other Japanese arts, but I stuck with the traditional TaeKwonDo (TangSooDo). Sorry, probably much more than you wanted or needed to know - it's late and I'm rambling... Mac ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:45:52 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Form Practice In a message dated 7/2/2001 4:34:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << After that experience, I praciticed in every direction! >> Then practice from the corners of the room when you can do all the walls down pat. :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:55:19 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Mini-Vacation In a message dated 7/2/2001 4:34:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << IMNSHO ALL adults begin in MA for one reason - insecurity. Since insecurity is such an embarrassing point, I think people tag on other side issues - weight, fitness, looking for Mr. Goodbar, etc. >> The main reason I joined was for alleviating stress in my life ... getting out of the house away from the baby and husband for an hour or two and working out and learning something I really found that I enjoyed. Got me away from housework ... from a bitchy neighbor ... from worrying about what to cook for dinner. It just plain got me away ! LOL ... everytime I stepped into the dojang ... it was like a mini-vacation. Hard to explain ... but it was how I felt when I first started. Illona ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 21:48:16 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Musical Forms > I saw a rather disturbing display at a recent tournament. > > Do any DD members have an opinion on "Musical Forms?" They look great if somebody knows the game. I saw some amazing demonstrations recently on several martial arts shows. Lot of spins, acrobatic movements, triple kicks in the air. Fantastic display of skill. But, on the other hand... I still prefer musical forms done by people like Jean Frenette or John Chung. Strong stances, solid techniques and a certain "something" that in my opinion lacks in many today`s performances. Just IMHO. - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: "Jim Griffin" Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:01:20 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Forms orientation Someone else may have mentioned this, but I missed it if they did. Another alternative is to practice your forms with your eyes closed. In addition to helping you get over problems orienting yourself, doing the form blind helps you feel your stances more fully, giving you another tool to detect and correct stance problems. One other thing you might try is doing the form in your head. My (probably bad) habit is to do my forms in my head every time I get stuck in a boring meeting. This works ok unless you have one of those chairs that allows you to pivot left and right while you are supposed to be paying attention - you do get some strange looks. :-) - --- begin quoted text --- From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 14:27:15 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #371 "Next, learn the form, not the room. Do it in all four directions, then do it at angles." Man, that is EXCELLENT advice. I wish someone would have said that to me when I began training. I remember, early on in my Tang Soo Do training, being invited to a "Women in the Martial Arts Demonstration." I stood in this enormous gym and realized I had never done my form without first bowing to the flags at the front of the dojang. I had to visualize the dojang just to fake the funk! After that experience, I praciticed in every direction! - - -Cheree - --- end quoted text --- - ---===--- Jim Griffin www.wuma.com sitebuilder.liveuniverse.com/jgriffin/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Eliasson, Johan" Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:09:40 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: disturbing display >From: Chereecharmello@aol.com >Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:47:49 EDT >Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #365 > >I saw a rather disturbing display at a recent tournament. > >Do any DD members have an opinion on "Musical Forms?" Disturbing display? Musical forms can, in my opinion, be very beautiful. If it's done right, of course. Check out the forms from the French Open 2000, at the site http://www.bilang.com Watch Steve Terada, Arnold Chan, and some of the kobudo artists, like Jean-Francois Lachapelle with a bo, and Nick Begley with a katana! It's awe-inspiring! It truly helps motivating me, to see these people at their best, in forms that are FAST... and the music doesn't disturb me, instead it just adds the element of timing! Regards, Johan E. ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:11:35 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Character building > Does martial arts training really build chracter, and if so, how? Couple of months ago I was coming back from a tournament which myself and my student were refereeing, and he invited me to a Korean restaurant. My student had some family problems in his life, he was raised with no parents by his aunt, moved several times from place to place, all that stuff. Now he`s 19, 3rd Kup and recently he fought in a major international tournament with over 800 competitors, winning gold after a great performance. We went to the restaurant, had a good meal and a long conversation about all possible things. At one point he said: " God, I`m so happy that I found Taekwondo. I could have made so many stupid things in life and I was really close to doing this. Now it`s history". This really made my day. Certainly there is something about building character... Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: J T Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Rude or not I have been watching this debate about where to purchase the uniform and thought I might chime in with petty $.02 worth. I used to run a martial arts school and so I know how much uniforms, and martial arts equipment in general, really cost at wholesale and I have sold those uniforms to my students for $10.00 above that cost. That was my choice, it doesn't make me a saint or sinner. Now that I am learning again, and I have to purchase items from time to time, I know that my instructor is making a very nice profit from my purchases. Now do I debate this with him and tell him "Hey, I know this doesn't really cost that much."? No, I kindly pay for it. Why? He may not be a struggling college student trying to make ends meet, but he is a struggling business man and family man, with a son in college, a daughter in high school and a stay at home wife who teaches piano on the side. My point? Simple take your eyes off yourself a little bit and look at your instructor's struggle. I am in the midst of finishing The Martial Way (an excellent book, by the way). In there the author talks about a thing called 'on (ohn)'. This is a kind of a debt that we owe to those who help us. When we pay our instructors for our lessons, we are merely paying a fee to keep the doors open and the lights on in the dojang. However what they give back to us, assuming they are credible teachers, we can never repay. So this whole $40 for a uniform is very petty in the grand scheme of things. Especially if it is just one uniform. How important are the lessons to you? I am sure that if you look at where you spend your money you could possible budget yourself to save for the uniform. Perhaps your instructor can do a payment plan for you if you are truly struggling financially. For the record, I was never a struggling college student, I was a struggling high school kid, followed by a struggling military person, followed by a struggling husband and father. I was blessed by instructors who allowed me to trade lessons for any work I could do for them. (hint..hint) Jeremy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:47:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #373 Patrick attacks the post: > >It is right to put family before training.< with the following flame bait: > I have seen many posts with this concept in it, I would like to offer some > alternative thinking! Why is it so many people put things into conflict > that are not - Why do so many chose to set up a straw man to bolster a weak > argument? At least, I HOPE it was flame bait. The time management conflict between family and training is a cliché in the martial arts, but a cliché that is also true. Just the other night I was talking to an old buddy of mine who has a 7 month old baby and he was talking about marriage problems he was having. It comes down to what is worth more to you -- your personal training (is it just for ego? For money? Or for professional safety?) or your family? Because if you are over 40, you know what I'm talking about. Most of the guys in the training halls at that point are divorced or have no kids. There are very few family guys. I told the guy to quit teaching (9 hours per week right now) and start taking another art (say, 4 hours per week). That way he'd get 4 hours more training each week than he is right now, and he'd get to spend 5 more hours per week with his wife (a real sweetie!) and his baby. For the family guys, Dakin burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 8:11:47 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #375 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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