From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #381 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 5 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 381 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: TSD Issues? the_dojang: Re: Formless Hyung the_dojang: Re: S-B-D, T-S-D, M-O-U-S-E. the_dojang: Re: Hapkido Seminars - Aussie style the_dojang: Wildwood, NJ Denizens the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #377 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #376 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #378 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #379 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #380 the_dojang: Re: How Young? the_dojang: Re: Forms the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest - family vs MA time management conflict the_dojang: Re: Kids in Karate the_dojang: Re: John or George the_dojang: Re: Charlie Lee Re: the_dojang: Re: John or George the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:22:58 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: TSD Issues? Dear Bernard: "....I am confused, please elaborate....." Me, too. Most certainly I am not a TSD practitioner, and as a Hapkido practitioner I probably have more than enough leadership and heritage problems. All the same, perhaps you could take a moment and provide a Readers Digestion of the issues so I could better appreciate the situation and Richards' response when he gets to it. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:31:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Formless Hyung Dear Christa: ".... I could barely find the form in the routine. The few I saw looked more like my niece's's gymnastics floor exercises than a MA form. ..." There was a time when folks were big on inventing their own hyung. I was sure this had died down once people realized just what a Form is, but apparently I am wrong. The Wu SHU people learned this the hard way when they attempted to reorganize all Chinese MA under a single banner. They have since been making quite an effort to resurrect traditional Chinese arts having derided and alienated many of the old masters. In the meantime, I suspect that we Americans might be better served by learning to walk the pathes trod before us rather than striking out randomly across areas we know little about. Otherwise, I suspect that what you and I have seen ("gymnastics floor exercises") is the expected result. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:41:50 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: S-B-D, T-S-D, M-O-U-S-E. Dear Ray: "...I know nothing about this warrior-scholar thing, but I have visited GM Hwang's office in the (new) MDK... Isn't he the head of SBD MDK? I believed he stopped calling his art TSD many (30+?) years ago. Yes? There really isn't much in the way of SBD -or- TSD in Korea these days...." Your comment is closer to what little I know about this matter, but I wouldn't mind hearing a little better explanation. The terms SBD, TSD, and TK get thrown around pretty freely but from what I have been lead to believe through articles in JAMA, the actual connections with the long-standing Korean martial traditions is marginal at best. Gee, shades of Hapkido, ne? All the same information is always appreciated. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:56:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido Seminars - Aussie style >From: "G. Booth" >Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:51:44 +1000 >Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Seminars - Aussie Style > >These are the city/are locations of where I will be visiting during my up >and coming trip. I honestly don't know each individual school location, >exact costs or times. If a list member needs more information on any one of >the locations mentioned below they can e-mail me and I will get them the >details. > >July 26 - 29 Florida (Napma Convention) >July 30 - August 2nd FREE >August 3 - 5 Pennsylvania/Maryland (Including a visit with GM Ji) >August 6 - August 9 FREE (Possibly a visit to Mike Anderson's school in >Phoenix Arizona) >August 10-12 Texas - Dallas (Master David Beck) >August 13 & 14 Canada - (GM Rudy Timmerman) >August 15-19 Minneapolis - (Master Gilbertson) >August 20 - Australian bound Actually I've only got him for a day -- Brad Stapleton is hosting him at his school in Whitehouse, Texas the evening of the 10th. But on that cue - a shameless plug: - ----- Beck Martial Arts presents a Hapkido Seminar (Aussie Style). Master Geoff Booth, a 7th Degree HKD Black Belt from Australia, will teach a Hapkido seminar Saturday, August 11 from 2-6 PM at Sun Lee TKD Institute, 24 Canyon Creek Village, Richardson, Texas. 3 blocks south of Hwy 190 on Custer Road. Only $40 prepaid, $50 at the door. Open to all ranks and styles. For age 16-up (with parental permission if under 18). Among the subjects will be joint locks, kicks, police-style come-alongs, Dan Bong (short stick), cane, and possibly more. Dan Bongs and Master Booth's video tape series will be available for sale at the seminar. See Master Booth's award winning website: http://hapkido.netro.com.au Hosted by Master David N. Beck, 5th Degree HKD. To prepay or for more information contact Master Beck: Email: dnbeck@beckmartialarts.com Phone: 972-396-5273 Cell: 214-334-5951 Website: http://www.beckmartialarts.com - --- David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Wildwood, NJ Denizens Alain Burrese noted: Response: Sorry, can't meet you there. Headed for Wildwood, NJ with family. Purely personal. Will be consuming huge quantities of beer, calzone, gyros, Phily Cheesesteaks, Pizza (New York style), and Curly fries. This is an annual ritual and serves as a prelude to fall training. Without the grease, the bearings will burn out. McD... P.S. Anyone recommend Dojangs in Wildwood, NJ area ? Jersey ? What exit you from ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:27:51 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #377 << Nowadays it is just added noise and nothing is accomplished I believe by adding it to the form. In fact it irritates me to see such a musical form. Is that what you saw? >> That's exactly what I saw and how I felt. It seemed to make a mockery of the MA's. One woman performed a knife form to a very disturbing Marilyn Manson (spelling?) song in which she trashed around like Reagan from the Exorcist. Scary... ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:43:29 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #376 I once heard of a type of self-defense class geared for teachers that is (was) aimed at submission of 'aggressive/violent' young, emotionally or mentally handicapped students. I have been looking endlessly for this program. I thought it was accredited by some Pennsylvania Teachers' Assoc., but I can't find it anywhere. Has anyone heard of this? I know plenty of joint-locks, self-defense, etc., but not much that could subdue without harming the child besides a bear hug... Willing to travel- Cheree ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:48:04 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #378 << When you have all the directions down, do it on an uneven lawn for better foot to ground work. >> I have the hardest time working out in shoes, even those little, flat MA type with the pivot points...That's a good idea, I seem to lose my footing easily on surfaces other than wood... - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:59:07 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #379 Spunky wrote: << Our instructor does tell students they need to do more exercise outside class, but they don't, so he isn't able to raise the bar too high. >> Gotcha. I have seen that also. Sorry, I misunderstood your comment... - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: "hackworth" Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:59:06 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #380 Bernard G Redfield wrote: "Master Hackworth, > > I have been watching with interest the infighting going on at the > warrior-scholar.com discussion board concerning the untruths and discrepancies > espoused by your TSD Grandmaster, ,We all know GM Hwang Kee lives in Korea, and HE is the leader of TSD MDK not your guy, I wonder when the falsehoods will be > corrected on the KSTDS Website, Frank has done a great job, in researching the > truth , now when will the website be updated? Your GM left the MDK in the sixties and went to TKD now he comes back as the GM of all official TSD in Korea according to the website. I am confused, please elaborate" I am not surprised that you are confused. This information was researched and posted by the original webmaster and most of it came from TKD Times articles. It seems that GM Hwang Kee's history changes every few years so it is very difficult to keep up with what he currently claims. This keeps the entire SBD, TSD, MDK world confused. Why is this directed at me? Are you a member of the MDK History Committee or something? What is your official interest in this? Or are you just trying to violate the DD with the bickering from the Warrior-Scholar site? As the "chairman" I write some of the articles for the English newsletter, thats it. I don't decide what is on GM Kim's website. Do not bring mud slinging from another site into this forum. GrandMaster Kim took over the organization after the former president died. He is not "my guy" he is a very respected GrandMaster in Korea and I am proud to know him. The members of the KTMS call their art TangSooDo MooDukKwan, just like some people call their art Taekwondo MooDukKwan. Next time send me a private e-mail before making attacks in a public forum. While you are at it take a close look at the different "histories" that GM Hwang Kee has published over the years. I will be in Korea in October and will let GM Kim know that he should consult with you if he has any questions on the history of TSD MDK. I am glad to hear the GM Hwang Kee has returned to be head of the TSD MDK. Who is now running SooBahkDo? I have a photo of GM Hwang Kee with GM Kim that was take in GM Kim's school years ago. I am amazed that there is so much "infighting" about this here in the US and Nobody has ever dropped by GM Kim's school in Korea to take it up with him. When we were at the 50th year anniversary of MooDukKwan in Seoul it was never mentioned. I think that if GM Hwang Kee and GM Kim can get along and not be worried about it then maybe you and Frank should do the same. Best Regards Richard Hackworth ------------------------------ From: Richard Zaruba Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:21:01 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: How Young? > OK the next question is how young do you think is too young to train? I have taken students as young as 4y/o but have developed a preparatory course consistent with their ages and abilities. My classes are broken into three age groups with content and length adjusted accordingly: 4-7 Tiny Tigers (30 min. class - beg. material only) 8-11 Children's (60 min. class - beg. and inter. material only) 12 and up Adult (90 min. class - beg., inter. and adv. material) I will advance a student into a higher class when and if I believe it is beneficial and appropriate for the student. I do not run a separate teen class. I have found that treating the teenagers as adults with the corresponding responsibilities, requirements and privileges is the best approach at our school. They preform to a higher standard and seem to enjoy being treated as an adult. My two cents, Rich ____________________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology 501 North Columbia Road P.O. Box 9037 Grand Forks, ND 58202-9037 Off: (701) 777-3952 Lab: (701) 777-2576 Fax: (701) 777-2477 ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:33:56 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Forms In a message dated 7/5/2001 6:28:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Sticking with forms here, i find practicing forms at all angles to be a necessary part of learning the form. >> We also will have a group get in a circle and do a form from there also ... hard to do but it can be done and with some forms it looks great! We also will put rubber knives in their hands and tell them to do their form with the weapons in their hands. Some completely go blank when given a weapon ... some will have to put the weapon down and do the form and then pick the weapon up and go thru the form again. Others will just do the form but are more conscious of what they are doing with their hands now in the form now that they have weapons in them. We have done our forms with sticks, nunchaku and bo's also. Breaks up the monotony of doing the same form over and over again. They eagerly want to do it now. Just our 2 cents on it. Illona ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:53:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest - family vs MA time management conflict It's always something of an issue. Family must come first, but it should never get to the point of an either/or. With the birth of my daughter I cut back tremendously on the amount of time I was spending training and teaching. But my wife has seen the effects if I stop entirely -- after a couple days I get REALLY irritable -- it is my stress relief. So she's resigned to letting me have that couple hours every few days I need as a minimum. So ongoing training is ok. Now getting to do 4-hour or whole-day seminars or travelling is a different story; have to be planned out well in advance and not be too close together... When my kids (we have one, desire another soon) have grown to the point of being able to participate (and assuming they want to), I'll be able to do more training. Or if I win a lottery... David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:09:27 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Kids in Karate In a message dated 7/5/2001 6:28:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The school i trained at did not train anyone under the age of 10, and no one under 16 was allowed to test higher than 3rd Gup. Once they turned 16 they had to take every rank test again as a senior student. Not sure if i agreed with that practice but... As an instructor I take children starting at 7. Also the only way a junior student would be required to re take a test once they turned 16 would be if they held a Dan grade. However that has not happened very often at all. >> We have a class here for 3 and 4 year olds ... but they aren't really learning karate, per se, ... it is just a fun class for the little brothers and sisters of the kids taking classes here. They want to do karate, too. So we opened up a couple of time slots for them and since we have ... the fights at home with siblings have gone down the parents tell us ... because karate kids do not fight with their brothers or sisters or they can't do karate anymore! :-) We start them as young as 5 in the regular classes for kids only ... but some are not ready at 5 to do so ... and I have no qualms about telling parents that I don't feel their son or daughter is just not ready yet. Come back in 6 months or a year and we will try again. I have one young man here who started in the kid's classes when he was 4 and he is 5 now and onto his 3rd form and just learned spinning crescent kicks. He is a remarkable young man and he loves karate with all his heart ... he has been wanting to get in here since he was 2 years old ! Very mature for his age. I find that the older kids around 8, 9, and 10 year olds have the best coordination when first starting out in a new actitivity and are easier to teach ... but I wouldn't give up my time with the 5, 6 and 7 year olds either ... they can be quite good, too. No one makes adult black belt here till the age of 17 ... Jr. Black Belt status below that age. They can go up in Jr. Black Belt rank but when they reach adult age they go to 1st Dan Adult ranking. Adults do a whole lot more here than the kids do ... and if and when they want to go up to adult status ... they will have to test for it and know all the material and spar adults to earn it. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:11:49 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: John or George In a message dated 7/5/2001 6:28:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << John or George? She used to 'date' George Chung. >> No, I believe it was John ? George was the funny brother ... great formist, tho and personally I thought he was better than John. But then again ... at my age ... memories tend to fade and I forget alot of things ... :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:15:22 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Charlie Lee In a message dated 7/5/2001 6:28:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Charlie was a fanatic when it came to training. He would spend HOURS = making sure the motions went with the music, and that the transitions = flowed with the music. >> He also is the greatest at being center ref in the sparring divisions ! I love to watch him run a ring. His rings are fast and furious but done with alot of respect. He makes sure he doesn't waste their 2 minutes of time with pointless talking ... he lets them get their whole 2 minutes in of fighting ! Illona ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:51:15 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: John or George > << John or George? She used to 'date' George Chung. >> > > No, I believe it was John ? George was the funny brother ... great formist, > tho and personally I thought he was better than John. I always liked Ringo better... :) Are they brothers? I didn't think so...??? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:52:13 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #381 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.