From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #384 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 6 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 384 In this issue: the_dojang: Outside looking in (TSD Debate) the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #382 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #383 the_dojang: ITF World Championships -- Day 6 - late post the_dojang: Hook, Line and Sinker the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #383 the_dojang: Re:Saved from an arguement worse than death the_dojang: make up your own story the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:06:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Outside looking in (TSD Debate) From: J T << DJN Kee >> Um, Jeremy... that would be DJN Hwang. Hwang is his sirname, Kee is is first name. Koreans usually go by their sir name first. Mac ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:09:01 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #382 << Hope this helps. Rich >> It does! Thank You! - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:20:20 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #383 << DJN Hwang Kee on the art of Soo Bahk Do. It is $90.00 >> I have this book, so if there is something specific you would like me to summarize I will gladly do so. - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:54:58 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: ITF World Championships -- Day 6 - late post 7-5-01 The second full day of competition is complete. This morning was men's under 63 KG sparring, men's over 80 KG sparring, women's team patterns and men's individual specialty breaking. The afternoon was women's under 70 KG and over 70 KG sparring, men's and women's team specialty breaking, and men's team pattern. (Please note that all final events will be on Saturday and Sunday afternoon.) It was another very difficult day for the USA. The women's team competed against Poland in the first round and the men drew DPRK (North Korea) In team patterns. Both of these teams are very strong in competition. The DPRK is an especially difficult team to beat at every World Championship. Both US teams did very well but fell short and both teams did very well in team technique breaking but lost out in a series of tie breakers. None of the men in individual sparring made it beyond the first round. A most unfortunate accident occurred when Mr. Shane Edmiston injured himself in the opening moments of his match. He severely pulled his hamstring. (This impacted the men's team, as Mr. Edmiston is a member. However, the alternate, Mr. Bryan James, did a great job.) The women sparring competitors did a little better. Jeanna Pool fought to a two round tie but lost the tie breaker round by a very slim margin. Krystal Davis won her first match easily but could not overcome a slow start in her second match. There is no competition on Friday. The ITF Congress is meeting so the rest of us have a free day. My roommates and I are going with several others on a trip to Venice. The official opening ceremony is at 9:00 PM on Friday night. Several people have asked for results for various countries. I'm not able to get that information just yet but will do what I can as we get closer to end. Good night and Taekwon, Robert Martin A-4-336 ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:43:37 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Hook, Line and Sinker Dear Mr. Stovall, >I really don't want to continue with this . . .< No sweat - Thanks for your points. Patrick p.s. My analyst can beat up your analyst :) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: DWoods321@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:43:51 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #383 Dojang Digest members, In light of the recent bickering and basically ugly stuff going on with the backgrounds of Hapkido and Tang Soo Do I felt the need to clear the air. Please keep in mind that I am not attacking anyone here just stating fact. Hundreds of years of Confucianism in Korea had martial artists and their respective arts held in disregard. As a result most if not all of the native Korean martial arts went extinct. This is also the reason that the Koreans were conquered so many times by their neighbors. The Korean fighting spirit that we know today originated out of the Korean War era and was taught to them by the Americans who served there and trained them for war. It is not this eons old mystical heritage. Anyhow, the Koreans were very pacifistic due to their Confucian ideals and then came the Japanese in the early 1900's. One of the first things the Japanese do is bulldoze the vanquished nation's culture, which was done. Any remnant of Korean martial art was probably done away with then with a few exceptions. The fact is that most of the Korean TaeKwonDo Kwan Leaders trained in Japan in Shotokan Karate-Do. Tae Kwon Do is a regurgitated version of Shotokan. These Kwan Leaders made up most of the art's supposed backgrounds to give their students of national pride. Likewise is the case of Hapkido it is Japanese. So there it is folks Korean martial arts are really cleverly disguised Japanese martial arts, that is the dirty little secret of Korean martial arts. Take care and God Bless! Tang Soo! David Woods ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:12:59 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Saved from an arguement worse than death Dear Richard and Bernard: Thank you for saving us from yet donnebrook. "...It is impossible to have any scholarly research done on anything in the martial arts. Mostly because these "Founding GrandMasters" can't even keep straight what the history of their own arts are for more than 3 to 5 years without changing it to better fit their current financial needs. It seems that TSD MDK is full of the same troubles that are eating away at arts like KukSoolWon and Hapkido...." I have not gotten quite that cynical just yet, though I must admit freely that day is drawing closer. I have absolutely NO idea why people generate the stuff that they have. I recently found out that there are still folks running around who believe that Choi, Yong Sul was second to OS Takeda at his act of seppuku (ritual disembowelment). I tried to tell these folks that OS Takeda died of illness in Spring of 1943 but they weren't having any. Choi said it in an interview so it must be true. Do you think that Choi thought that noone would figure out what really happened? From where I stand I have no great aversion to researching Korean martial tradition, but then I don't feel any slavish deference to it, either. What I have found is that as long as we practitioners keep the questions light, and err on the side of fantasy, the en-nobled greats can spin yarns with the best of them. Start asking penetrating questions based in fact and conversation sorta dries up. BTW: I am contacting the library at UCLA through the librarian specified for their Korean Exchange program. I'll be more than willing to share whatever resources I turn up here on the Net. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:44:15 PDT Subject: the_dojang: make up your own story > and their respective arts held in disregard. As a result most if not all of > the native Korean martial arts went extinct. This is also the reason that the > Koreans were conquered so many times by their neighbors. The Korean fighting > spirit that we know today originated out of the Korean War era and was taught > to them by the Americans who served there and trained them for war. Umm, very interesting. Just how many times, in what years and by whom was Korea conquered? Sorry, couldn't resist. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:45:35 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #384 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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