From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #405 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 13 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 405 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #403 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #400 the_dojang: Re: Athletic Type/Heart Type the_dojang: Re: Master Choi, Jung Hwa the_dojang: Re: Thanks Carsten the_dojang: Heart the_dojang: KSW the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:14:54 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #403 I recently taught a private lesson to woman who repeatedly made reference to spousal abuse. She seemed more interested in learning how to hurt someone than in actually learning in the slow, but progressive, way that the traditional MA's are usually taught. I am fearful that this woman is in a bad scenario and may attempt to use what little knowledge she has gained... My question is, should I mind my own business or interfere? ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:56:59 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #400 <<>> What was the point of Dr. hackorth's comments linking these two people together? There is no comparison between the two men or Arts. MooYeKwan is the registered is the name of Master Whalen's registered in Korea. Combat Hapkido is the name of someone's version of hapkido. One Man lived and trained on the Mat learning Hapkido (Master Whalen)and one did it by seminar and photo ops. JAck Ouellette Chendokwan Hapkido ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:02:37 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Athletic Type/Heart Type In a message dated 7/13/2001 1:20:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << THE most important aspect of surviving a real fight probably is "Heart">> Boy...I dunno. I really have mixed emotions about that idea. While I won't come right out and say that it's "wrong" to think this way, I will offer that it's a very deep issue, and one that's dependent upon multiple factors. >> Well, maybe that works well in a boxing ring or in a tournament setting ... but in a real life situation with your life on the line and not just a trophy to hang up in your room .... I think I would like a bit more of an arsenal than "just heart". I had a girlfriend from high school killed at the Jr. College in our town right after graduation. Strong, athletic type with lots of heart ... but it didn't save her. She fought hard for her life ... but he still managed to kill her. She had absolutely no martial art or self defense training in her at all. Just spent her life doing "girl activities" ... cheerleading, gymnastics and stuff. I will never forget her ... Illona ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:20:25 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Master Choi, Jung Hwa Ma'am, GM Rhee has said he will retire when Gen. Choi does. GM Sereff has cut back his schedule already, teaching his black belt classes in Broomfield, Colorado and doing a few seminars -- not traveling like he did in the past. I don't know what GM Hwang's intentions are but have heard that he is not interested in taking over as president of the ITF. I have stated before, that the job should go to the best person available. The congress of the ITF has already determined that that is Master Choi, by unanimous vote. In Italy, Gen. Choi said that Master Choi needs to be a Grand Master before he takes over. He will be eligible for that honor in two years time. We will see if Gen. Choi feels Master Choi is ready at that time. Taekwon, Robert Martin 4th Dan ITF > From: "Melissa Lambton" > Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:41:10 +0100 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Master Choi, Jung Hwa > > I have heard that Master Choi, Jung Hwa will be taking over the reins of the > ITF when General Choi, Hong Hi steps down. I was wondering what the views of > The Listers were on this subject. Do you believe that it should stay in the > Choi family, or would a higher ranking member such as Grandmaster Ree, Ki > Hah have been considered? > > Taekwon. > Melissa (1st degree ITF TKD) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 22:19:54 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Thanks Carsten Carsten Thanks for clarifying your views. I think I now understand your position more clearly. If I understand your view, it is that there were a variety of martial arts taught in Korea, some of which did not originate with and even preceded the introduction of Yawara to Korea by Choi Young Sool, but which were generally and loosely referred to as Hapkido. These systems had techniques similar to what we now know as Hapkido (i.e., they looked like "Hapkido"). This is a clear and plausible position. I do not think that most historians of Korean martial arts would agree, but perhaps the situation is not as clear as I had thought. I look forward to reading and listening more which will either strengthen or change my view. Jose' ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:40:53 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Heart Craig writes: > Fighting > spirit...never quit...never say die...I guess these are all descriptive of > what it means to have "heart". Whenever I hear the term "heart" the first > thing that pops into my mind is the numerous times I've seen some outclassed > boxer in the ring with someone they have no business competing against. By > the end of 10 rounds, both eyes are almost closed and they've been knocked > to the canvas a half-a-dozen times...but for some reason they just won't > quit. Round after round, they keep getting off of that stool only to get > their face pounded for their trouble. Hi Craig: You are right when you say "heart" is difficult to describe, and perhaps this is why you are reluctant to acknowledge its value in a fight. Heart can also readily be confused with stupididy or dogged determination. What I mean by the term is that certain something that gives you an edge over someone who does not have it. I call that heart; however, perhaps there is a better name for it. I witnessed a fight some years ago when a boxer (who had displayed heart for years) suddenly lost it -- No Mas! Remember that one? No doubt he still had great skills. Some say he was outclassed, but many think he just could not find that magic combination of skill plus heart > My concern is what do I have to go along with that "heart"? Do I have a > toolbox deep enough that will allow me to prevail without having to find out > just how deep that pool of "heart" goes? Do I have the good sense (and > ability) to just run away? Or will I have to be like that wounded > boxer...outclassed and unprepared? Having to fight with nothing but guts, > will, and instinct between myself and defeat. No, I don't want that, and so > I stand by my supposition (and not just within the confines of this > particular discussion) that our physical skills are of paramount importance. All I know is that I have faced people in combat who should by all counts have beaten me. They had either superior skills (or were armed) than I was, but they lacked something. Glad I had the heart to give me that edge. Thanks for a great reply. Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:10:28 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: KSW Terry writes: > 2) The grandmaster of our system of KSW is named Sun. I don't know his > 'first' name. I have never bothered to ask what it is. I don't think I > will ever make it to Korea, so I have never bothered learning it. He is > based just outside of Seoul. Because of the excellent job that In Sun has > done in trademarking KSW, our grandmaster had to find another venue in order > to be able to certify his students. I am told that this venue came in the > form of a Buddhist martial arts school/group/system that did not have a > grandmaster at the time and made him their GM (I am told because of a number > of similarities between the arts, including the buddhist art have Bek Pal gi > hyung in its curriculum, amongst other things). Hi Terry: No flames here, just an intelligent discussion. From reading your post, it appears your GM gave up the art of Kuk Sool. It further seems like you call your Korean GM Sun. Are we speaking of Grand Master Seo In Sun? > 4) Our master, whose name is Park (again, I've never bothered to find out > his first name) is based in Toronto. > 6) Dahn Mu Do? If this is the same Lee as I think it is, he was apparently > a former student of Park's in Ontario, who was ORIGINALLY taught in the US > system. As I understand it, he taught KSW in Barrie, under Park's banner > for a few years until (as always seems to happen in Korean arts) had a > disagreement with Park and decided to 'create' his own art, which, as I am > told is some bastardized combination of the US and Candian versions. As I thought Dakin, this is the man (Park) whose school I visited in Toronto, and it is the root of the Canadian Kuk Sool/Dahn Mu Do offshoot. BTW, I have seen GM Lee's students up close. For the most part they have vastly improved since becoming Dahn Mu Do, and their art Dahn Mu Do very much looks like the old version of Kuk Sool that is also found in Venezuela and other parts of South America. > > 5) As far as this 'watered down' issue goes, I base this claim on three > sources: > a) personal observation. Over the past 10 years three different groups > of students from the US system have come to our class in Calgary, one from > somewhere in California, one from somewhere in Texas, and one from somewhere > in eastern Canada. To my knowledge, there is no connection in Eastern Canada. Can you give us more info on this group? > The 'watered down' aspect was consistent in all 3 groups and > consisted of two major aspects. Stances movements(especially in the > patterns) which was always too high and too evenly weighted in both legs/ > and was too rigid and did not have the body supported properly in the > movement. I have taught Kuk Sool for many years, and I have found this a problem with students rather than the art. Lest I return to my old ways of the Jook Do, I have a very hard time to get students to lower their stances. Perhaps I am getting too complacent, but only a small percentage of my students seem to have the intrinsic motivation to work that hard. > I hope this answered some of the questions, and doesn't create a giant flame > attack on me. These are my own personal observations/conclusions over the > past 10 years, and don't mean anything to anyone but myself. Terry, we appreciate your input. You are helping to solve some of the goings on in Canadian Kuk Sool. Keep it up. Rudy ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:58:20 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #405 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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