From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #423 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 20 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 423 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #417 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #422 the_dojang: Re:Getting my kicks the_dojang: Re: WTF Certificates Re: the_dojang: Re: WTF Certificates the_dojang: Re: ITF/BaiRui the_dojang: Re: "Korean" weapons the_dojang: KSWHKD the_dojang: Re: Following the Way the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #422 the_dojang: Integrating the Art Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #422 ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:41:45 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #417 <><< Is taekwondo effective self-defence against seasoned boxers or kickboxers? >><> I look at it from this angle: Any person who actively practices a fighting skill will have a heightened sense of reaction, often in anticipation of an attack. I agree with whom ever added the point about being "equally seasoned." Being trained to react, no matter what style, will grant the attacked a much better chance of defending his/herself. We had a semipro boxer train with us. When he first began, he looked like a big teddy-bear because he was rather unaccustomed to legs flying at his head. Being considerably larger that I, spectators would just laugh as he basically allowed me to pummel him. Once he got the hang of it, however, he managed to combine the boxing skills and the "leg techniques." He became close to lethal at that point :0 ) - -Cheree ------------------------------ From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:57:19 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #422 Ray, I must have missed the post regarding KSHKD and the Kidohae. Years ago like in the early 1970's the name KSHKD was used by many people and it wasn't until much later that GM Suh, In Hyuk decided that he did not want the 2 names used together and started a big push to gain recognition for his art which you know is Kuk Sool Won. That is when many GM and Master decided to go thier on way resulting in numerous new organizations. Dan ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:12:16 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Getting my kicks Dear Mark: If I can add one more point to the fine response you made regarding kicking and training it would be Consistency. Every now and then I hear someone identify something as "good" or "bad" because they do it once, over-do it, suffer an injury or debilitation and then bad mouth that particular activity. While I personally don't support the idea of doing hundreds of kicks at every class, I want to go on record as saying that less techniques done on a regular basis is a helluva lot better than massive repetitions done every once in a while. Of course we are talking specifically about kicks here but I think this also carries into practicing breakfalls, wrist locks, weapons or anything else. The body is a pretty remarkable tool. It can put up with a ton of s**t if it really needs to. However, I think the body's better asset is its ability to adjust to regular stressers over time and that means that a practitioner must make those demands of the body reasonable and on a regular basis. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 07:13:22 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: WTF Certificates > I was promoted to 2nd Dan with these forms in 1995 through AAKMA "American > Association of Korean Martial Art." Certificate is a WTF Dan certificate, > which was confusing to me at first, but was later explained to me that the > Kukiwon runs all of the Tae kwon do rank that comes out of Korea. The only > thing that I don't get is that my certificate says that I have met the > qualifications set by the World Tae kwon do Federations when I do not > practice WTF TKD. Is there anyone else on this list that belongs to AAKMA, > or who does Nung-Suk forms? Any response would be appreciated. I don`t belong to AAKMA, nor do I know the Nung-Suk forms, but another point is the fact that the WTF doesn`t issue any certificates. All Dan certificates are issued by the Kukkiwon, there is no WTF emblem on them. Also the original Kukkiwon certificate doesn`t say anything about "qualifications set by the World Taekwondo Federation". It states, in English and Korean, "This is to certify that the person named above has attained the Dan at a test conducted in accordance with the rules and regulation of the Kukkiwon for promotion test." Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 9:39:35 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: WTF Certificates > I don`t belong to AAKMA, nor do I know the Nung-Suk forms, but another point > is the fact that the WTF doesn`t issue any certificates. All Dan > certificates are issued by the Kukkiwon, there is no WTF emblem on them. > Also the original Kukkiwon certificate doesn`t say anything about > "qualifications set by the World Taekwondo Federation". It states, in > English and Korean, "This is to certify that the person named above has > attained the Dan at a test conducted in accordance with the rules and > regulation of the Kukkiwon for promotion test." The certs have changed over time. I'd have to check my 1st Dan to see what it says, but I do recall that my 2nd Dan "kukkiwon" (from 1986) states that it is a WTF 2nd Dan. Sometime after that they switched (back?) to Kukkiwon certs. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Robert Martin" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:18:50 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: ITF/BaiRui BaiRui is a pretty good group. They do teach current ITF Taekwon-Do and are a part of the ITF. I have meant several instructors and students -- good people. As far a being original TKD, you'll get many different answers. The only thing I can say is that General Choi was the first one to use the Taekwon-Do for the martial art that he was teaching. Good luck in your training Robert Martin 4th Dan ITF/USTF (BaiRui is a sister orignization to the USTF) > > From: "Jim Jansen" > Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:47:18 +1000 > Subject: the_dojang: Thanks again! > > I am eternally grateful for the answers to my other questions! Thanks > again. Sure enough, another one has risen. I has located a school to > start with. It is the ITF or BaiRui. Aparently it is the original style > founded by Mr General Choi. I was wondering if it is a good style of > taekwondo, (well being the original!), and also if it is actually indeed > the first style of TKD . Thankyou.. > > - -JimmyJansen > > ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:51:14 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: "Korean" weapons Dear Folks: One of the areas of contention that I have a lot of times is the way that material regarding Korean MA is suddenly brought to light as though it has always been around though secreted away from public view. My personal experience when that happens is that somebody comes through town and demonstrates a technique or weapon and it catches the publics eye. In order to retain students or public interest the Korean practitioner seeks out material on the item or technique, learns what he can on the QT and then presents the material as though a.) he always knew it and b.) it was always present in the curriculum. Of course, the lack of information available to the general public and the retiscence of modern MA to question a teachers' authority allow this to happen more often or not.And, I still see TKD schools that teach tonfa and nunchaku as though they were Korean weapons. I still see Korean practitioners presenting Kendo as the equivilent of or replacement for Kumdo. There are, of course, other weapons that I don't think we are ever going to sort out regarding origins such as the dan bong (short stick) and a lot of the empty-hand techniques.For my part, I think we need to go back to before 1910 and ask ourselves what was in use then. The reason I say that is that I am beginning to wonder if Korean tradition owes much more to the development of local policing efforts rather than national military efforts. David Chow (Kung Fu - History, Philosophy and Technique, 1982) identifies M Tung Tsung Nee (1880-1971) as being instrumental in organizing Chin Na techniques for use by the Chinese police and military. Despite the fact that every form of Chinese boxing has its own chin na curriculum of subduing and restraining techniques, Master Tung organized a cohesive curriculum of 72 techniques. Given that a number of Chuan Fa styles were imported from China it would be interesting to find out just exactly when the most currently taught and used techniques made their debut in the curriculum of various teachers. If we go back to 1910 we could catch the tail-end of the Yi dynasty including the Reform Movement of the 1890-s and hopefully before the full impact of the Japanese occupation. To close, I would wonder out loud if the traditional Korean MA are well-served by introducing weapons from other arts. Maybe yes, maybe no. I think it is a dis-service to introduce those weapons and then work like hell to make up some rationale that they were always in use though not commonly known. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:28:38 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: KSWHKD Piotr writes: > I`m just curious since this is the first time when I hear about "Kuk Sool > Hapkido" in connection to KSW and Kidohae. Hello Piotr: That version of name has been around for a long time. When I first became a student of KS in the sixties, it was named that by Master Pak (my first KS Instructor). In fact, my first certificates bore that name. I believe trademark issues made it necessary to change this. Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:39:17 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Following the Way In a message dated 7/20/2001 7:41:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I have been teaching full time for 8-9 years and a full time school owner for the last 5 years. I constantly question my thoughts and actions as to my direction and what I am teaching my students. When a senior student quits. I take it personally, like maybe I didn't meet their needs or failed as an instructor in some way. As I was pondering things last night I came to this conclusion. "As an instructor, what's important is not the number of students you have, but the number of lives that you've touched." >> Phil, I, too, used to get terribly depressed if an advanced student quit ... but they don't quit really ... they have taken the martial arts and it is still in their heart and soul. It will always be a part of them even if they don't know it. But I know it now and it makes me happy to see them progress in their lives ... it is just not everyone's path to do what we do ... stay in it for the rest of our lives and pass it on to others. And I like your quote ... I printed it out so I could put it on my monitor so I could see it everyday. Illona ------------------------------ From: ConcordTKD@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:27:30 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #422 ""I am eternally grateful for the answers to my other questions! Thanks again. Sure enough, another one has risen. I has I am eternally grateful for the answers to my other questions! Thanks again. Sure enough, another one has risen. I has located a school to start with. It is the ITF or BaiRui. Aparently it is the original style founded by Mr General Choi. I was wondering if it is a good style of taekwondo, (well being the original!), and also if it is actually indeed the first style of TKD . Thankyou.."" If you are looking to learn Taekwon-Do then your best solution is an ITF school. ITF is the oganization founder by General Choi, the man who founded and developed Taekwon-Do. Style of Taekwon-Do is a term used by others to describe what they are doing as Taekwon-Do. You will find that they have some Taekwon-Do mixed with other forms of martial arts. John Murphy A-3-756 ITF/USTF ------------------------------ From: "Ward, Jon" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:56:10 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Integrating the Art > From: Brian Myers Subject: the_dojang: RE : Songahm Weapons...Origins > Craig stated > "The reason I ask is because what little I have seen of it looks > remarkably > similar to techniques from Filipino martial arts (Kali, Escrima, Arnis, > etc.). Also, some "insiders" have told me that this material was adopted > from FMA. I know that the Korean terms for single and double stick are > used, but I can't help but think that this material is of Filipino origin > (either in part, or in whole)." > Brian responded > Again, yes, I believe you atleast partially correct. As for the term > "insiders", well that could be just about anybody who has asked these same > questions. To my knowledge the ATA has never made an issue of "hidding" > the > fact that we are an integrated art. > I would have to respectfuly disagree with the hiding of the ATA being an integrated art. The techniques of Eskrima were taken and called Korean stick fighting. Again no disrespect intended, just stating the facts as I see them. Jon Ward Ward's Tae Kwon Do Inayan Systems International ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:43:06 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #422 > If you are looking to learn Taekwon-Do then your best solution is an ITF > school. Great! I'm headed over to Seoul in a few months. Where can I locate an ITF school while I'm there? :) Ray "The best of the best of the ..." Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #423 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.