From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #432 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 24 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 432 In this issue: the_dojang: Ancient Weapons the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #430 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #428 the_dojang: RH the_dojang: Roundhouse kicks the_dojang: Re: Meditation the_dojang: Meditation the_dojang: Re: Knee Injury Repost the_dojang: Re: Meditation Stuff the_dojang: Vipasanna Meditation In MA? the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:34:21 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Ancient Weapons On the last post someone gave the story of a policeman being attacked by a man with a samurai sword,, they stated that although the officer had locked his firearm in the car he was able to run around the car and keep the sword wielding man at bay,,, my point exactly!!! You can disarm a man with a sword by using a CAR to block it!! Ha ha Now a big American Chevy is what I call a MODERN WEAPON!!! Michael Tomlinson **************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager at administrator@volusia.k12.fl.us. **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #430 Does anyone have any suggestions on how to begin meditation? Do you think about something in particular? Do you think about nothing (which I find hard since I am then thinking ABOUT nothing). OR, I've read that you simply let thoughts travel through your mind without attempting to latch onto any specific thought - to just let it come and then go, only to be replaced by another...... Mr. Lasich, The best technique I have found is to sit with my back striaght, (sit against a wall if you have to), I prefer my hips elevated, so I sit on the edge of a pillow. I focus on my breath. In for 3, hold for 12, out for 6. If you have trouble do in for 2, hold for 8, out for 4. By doing this, I find that I have no room for any transient thoughts. You could also look into purchasing an alpha training tape. It is a sound that helps the brain generate alpha waves. Hope this helps. Neal Konecky ===== "Our government, conceived in freedom and purchased with blood, can be preserved only by constant vigilance" William Jennings Bryan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:29:06 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #428 In a message dated 07/22/2001 8:15:49 PM EST, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Lately I've noticed a trend on here of many people "concerned" with the "true" Korean Culture and the "true" Korean Weapons, I have also noticed that none of these people are actually Korean!!>> So? I like pizza and pasta. Does that mean I have to be Italian to find out more about the Italian culture? (I'm half Italian, but still.....) I can't speak about the other people, but I want to know a little more about this culture that is the homeland of these arts we study. Some of us have Korean instructors, while others learn from someone who learned from a Korean instructor. Those few Korean Masters that I have met have always been quiet, peaceful men who don't look like Martial Artists of exceptional skill. I remember one Master who spent dinner talking about his experiences in the Korean War, and did so in a soft mild tone. (I always thought the Restaurant we were in emptied quickly after he started in on the stories....) But I want to know more about his culture. Not to take things I like about it and deride those things I don't, but to understand. That's all. >> Listening to people talk about how the Korean Culture is being altered or not represented correctly by non Koreans is pretty hilarious. The last time I checked I was living in the United States! And so are most of you!<< This is a nation of Immigrants. My maternal grandparents came from Italy, while my father's family can trace itself back to the mid-1700's in this country. Bits and pieces of other cultures have been melded into ours, ranging from food to law to words. Some people had taken more then a passing interest in some cultures. You don't have to be born Korean or live in Korea to have some knowledge of the culture. >> Do you understand how ludicrous it sounds to be discussing your interpretation of Korean Culture when you live somewhere like Chicago!<< So? A lot of Immigrants hold onto their culture -- just go into Chinatown or other strong ethic neighborhood -- You see signs in the native language, the language being spoken, the old culture being adhered to. People can get a taste of what a foreign culture is like. >>Can't we move on? I couldn't care less about what is considered a "true" Korean weapon or not. I like American weapons, things like Colt, and Smith and Wesson.. I like practicing with the "traditional weapons" but come on,, I don't worry about someone drawing a sword on me or a Korean Fan,,,etc.. I am more concerned with a knife and a firearm,,, we are in the United States remember,,, not the Silla Kingdom!! Michael Tomlinson >> Let's see....Baseball bats, brass knuckles, 2 X 4s. What are the difference between these items and a baton, danto, or other MA weapon? They're just as easy to get a hold of as a knife. One of the reason to study weapons is to know their limitations in case you are confronted with them on the street. There are only so many ways to use a knife, a club or a chain. Humans have an absolute genius for using improvised weapons -- that's been clear through history. I think the discussion about what is and isn't Korean culture seems to have rubbed you the wrong way. You feel a certain way, and I can'y dispute that. What I have disputed is the way you've said it. I hope I have not been offensive in any way, and if I have been, I am sorry. Unless someone is making a statement I know is wrong, I usually let it go -- For example the HRD/HKD debate. I don't know whether these people are telling the truth, but I accept what they have to say until I either find something I know is wrong, or someone else makes a stronger argument against them. Peace, Craig ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:29:51 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RH Cheree writes: > I remember leaving the > dojo in agony, partly because we did not pivot our foot as we carried through > the kick. This puts a hell-of-a-lot of strain on the hip-nearly forcing it > grind. Perhaps the instructor was not emphasizing the correct elements of the > roundhouse, but I was overjoyed when I learned the Korean, Tang Soo Do > version of a roundhouse kick. (Rear foot pivoting nearly opposite of your > target, kicking leg using hip and knee to carry through the kick) MUCH less > painfull Hello Cheree: You just described a classic instance of an instructor (purposely omitting capitol "I" here) who does not know simple biomechanics (Eh Bruce). There is no excuse for such lack of knowledge these days, and it is a shame that we still have people teaching without understanding even the very basic ideas of motion and impact. The roundhouse kick can be done in a variety af manner, but it always needs to be done with correct use of the joints involved. The knee (of the base leg), being a hinge type joint, is not designed to withstand the force of the twisting that occurs if a pivot is not done properly (as you found out the hard way). Similarly, the knee (of the kicking leg) must be pointed at the target in order to allow the leg to unfold in the manner it is designed to do (like a hinge). If this is not done correctly, students invariably end up with pulled groin muscles. The RH kick is a great tool, but many students hurt themselves if it is not taught properly. At my school, I insist we use the front leg only as a jab type strike (less power/more speed), and the rear leg RH kicks are always done with the ball of the foot. This way, with the instep kick, the small bones of the foot do not get crushed by the force of the impact. A good video example of the awesome damage you can do to yourself was recently circulated. It shows the attacker completely breaking his own leg in the most horrible fashion. If you saw this video, you can imagine what the small bones of the foot could look like if you use to much force on a solid object with a weak striking tool. Like I posted before on this subject, the various RH kicks should be done to suit the intended target. Few martial artists these days train their body parts for impact. The demanding breaking requirements of our art used to ensure that students "conditioned" their striking tools, but I can no longer make this mandatory for all students. Too many cut hands from broken bottles make the insurance companies (and a caring Instructor) very nervous. In addition, the demographics of our membership changed from all adults to mostly kids, and we all know (I hope) that kids should not strike hard targets (or do repeated knuckle pushups) because their bones have not yet fully developed. Similarly, we must be careful what we demand of our seniors. Osteo is a condition that does not allow for errors in judgement. Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:48:18 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Roundhouse kicks Hello all In our school we teach both ways for kicking roundhouse kicks depending on the target. Soft tissue area (thighs for instance) you would use the instep. For hard boney areas you would use the ball of the foot. I personally find that I have more flexibility when kicking with the instep. I also had a bad experience with a board involving the ball of my foot and the emergency room (toes just aren't flexible enough). So even to this day I kick exclusively with the instep of the foot. When I teach students though I explain why I dont kick with the ball but I encourage them to do it. Boards leave nasty bruises on the insteps. Along the same lines I have a question. I was wondering how many people kick with their foot pivoted 180 degrees (so foot pointed directly away from kick) as opposed to 90 degrees or less? Is this a Japanese or Korean thing? Or is this a personal preference thing? I can see there are benefits to kicking both ways, but I think not pivoting 180 degrees puts a lot of strain on the knee. This is not meant as an attack on not pivoting just my observation, and questions for those of you who dont pivot 180 degrees. thanks Ken Legendre 3rd Dan innae@netexpress.net ------------------------------ From: "GARCIA ROS, David" Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:23:06 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Meditation I think you are just describing one kind of meditation called ZEN. It is more or less as you say. In addition: Sitting on the floor (Lotto or SemiLotto), half-opened eyes, hands on each leg, straighted back, and be in front of an empty wall completely black or completely white (try both). Read something about Zen before begining, but really, are you sure you want to do Zen meditation? perhaps, you should start with another kind of easier way. > ------------------------------ > From: "Lasich, Mark D." > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:30:05 -0400 > Subject: the_dojang: Meditation? > > This question is so fresh in my mind, so pardon me if I've asked it already, > or if it's already been addressed on the list: > > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to begin meditation? Do you think > about something in particular? Do you think about nothing (which I find hard > since I am then thinking ABOUT nothing). OR, I've read that you simply let > thoughts travel through your mind without attempting to latch onto any > specific thought - to just let it come and then go, only to be replaced by > another...... > > How long for a newbie? Five minutes, an hour? > Position: Sitting, standing, lying down? > Eyes open, closed? > Breathing: in through the nose, out the mouth? All nose? All mouth? - I *do* > know breathing into the lower abdomen is the best! > > Any guidance for someone who is beginning to realize the benefits of some > 'quiet time' in the midst of the flurry of activity most of us call our day... > > Thank you. > > Mark > mark.lasich@alcoa.com - -- DAVID GARCÍA ROS Auxiliar de Investigación Universidad de Navarra Histología y Anatomía Patológica Correo HTML: http://www.unav.edu/histologiayap/ Teléfono: 948 425600 Ext:6215 Fax: 948 425649 c/ Irunlarrea s/n 31.008 Pamplona Navarra España ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Meditation This question arose: Meditation for me began when the Beatles visited that guy in India in the sixties. In the late 70's I visited a bookshop called "Yes!" in Washington, DC. Amid the myriad of books was a slew of books on meditation. I was referred to several. Moreover, I purchased a set of meditation cards which was a series of cards with various meditation exercises on them. You use the cards incrementally to learn various methods of meditation. Does not have to be a constant exercise. Variation is indeed important. In the early 80's I visited a few enlightened individuals who further provided meditation exercises. I was a rough guy who had a hair like trigger personality. So, I needed to relax. This helped me avoid numerous forays into the slammer ! A few meditation tapes and CD's have made their way into my house, along with incense, which made me less incensed. Several years ago I purchased a few video tapes at Target. Covers yoga, Tai Chi, and a few other areas. Summary: Try a few things to see what makes it work for you. Be the water, not the rock. McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:22:38 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Knee Injury Repost Dear Folks: I was thinking that there may be some material in this post that people could use. This comes to you courtesy of M Hoosain Narker of the SABAKI Net who was kind enough to repost it. Enjoy. "...KNEE INJURIES - ONE OF THE MAJOR INJURIES IN TAEKWONDO by Trish Bare Grounds Knee injuries are what a lot of athletes fear, particularly in taekwondo, because they can lose a lot of time away from practice and competition due to injury. But what really happens when an athlete injures his/her knee? Well, it depends on what structure of the knee that is injured, and how badly it is damaged. Injuries can range from a simple bruise and swelling of the muscle tissue, taking 5-10 days to heal, to a complete rupture of a muscle tendon or ligament which can take 6-12 months to completely heal. So, let's talk about these injuries. Like any joint in your body, your knee is made up of muscles, ligaments, cartilage (known as meniscus) and bone. Let's start with the bones. The long bone of the thigh is the femur. It is the most difficult bone in the body to completely fracture, but this does not mean it won't happen, or that it can't be chipped or cracked. There is also the patella, better known as the "kneecap" which floats over the knee joint. This is the bone that often becomes chipped or cracked when taking a direct blow to the bone. Lastly, there are two bones of the lower leg, the tibia and fibula, which complete the bones of the knee joint. The biggest problem with bones in taekwondo, as with other sports, is many of the athletes are still growing therefore have growth plates in their bones located near every joint in the body. If growth plates are damaged it can lead to problems in bone growth, even causing these growth plates to close prematurely, stunting natural growth of the bone. Growth plates in females generally close between the ages of 14-17, whereas growth plates in males tend to remain active up until age 20-22. If either the bones or the growth plates of these bones are damaged, the athlete will most likely be put in one of several forms of casts, possibly requiring surgery to insert pins, plates, screws or rods to help hold the bone together as it heals. An injury to a bone can take anywhere from 3-12 weeks to heal, dependent on the extent of the injury, with some fractures never completely closing (very rare). An important note, though, for the first 6 months to a year a bone, which has been fractured, is at greater risk of being re-fractured near the original site. Just because the doctor re moves the cast does not mean an athlete should immediately go back to the level of activity they were at before the fracture occurred. An athlete needs to work their way back into participation. For taekwondo this means kicking at 50% speed at first, slowly building up to 100% speed, kicking air and eventually kicking paddles and bags. An athlete should not return to sparring class or competition until the strength of the muscles has been regained, otherwise they risk injury that could keep them out of activity for even longer. If an athlete has been in a cast for more than 3 weeks, it is recommended that the athlete go for physical therapy prior to returning to practice. The knee also has several large muscle groups which cross over the joint, allowing movement of the joint. The main muscles of the knee include the quadriceps (muscles of the front of the thigh), the hamstrings (muscles of the back of the thigh), the popliteus (muscle which "unlocks" the back of the knee when bending) and the gastrocnemius (better known as the calf muscle). All of these muscles cross over the knee joint and therefore allow the knee to move. Injuries to these muscles are measured in degrees of severity, ranging from a 1° (overstretched) to a 3°(complete rupture or tear) strained muscle. Generally, the muscles that are injured the most often in taekwondo are the muscles of the back of the leg, the hamstrings and popliteus. The popliteus muscle is a very small muscle found very deep in the back of the knee. This muscle is generally injured when the athlete has not properly warmed up and stretched before kicking full speed or against an object, or is from hyperextending the knee. The hamstring on the other hand is almost always injured from not properly warming up and stretching prior to kicking. Since this is a very large muscle group it tends to take longer to heal, particularly if an athlete continues to "push through the pain". Hamstring injuries can take as much as 6 months to a year to properly heal. When a hamstring ruptures (snaps or tears) it sounds like a gun being shot, very loud and extremely painful. Injuries of this nature must go through several months of physical therapy in order to regain their original strength and flexibility. Muscle injuries to the front of the knee and leg generally involve the patellar tendon, a small tendon connecting the 4 quadricep muscles over the patella (kneecap) just below the patella. If you feel just below your kneecap on your lower leg you will feel a small bump, this is where the patellar tendon attaches, and where the tendon tends to pull away from when injured. Injuries to this tendon occur from not properly warming up and stretching, running or jumping on a hard surface (such as concrete), a direct kick to the area, or in some cases from the bones growing faster than the muscle and tendons (Osgood Schlater's Disease). Injuries to muscle can take anywhere from 3 weeks to 6 months, even a year to heal, dependent on the extent of the injury and whether or not the athlete takes proper care of the injury. The cartilage of the knee is known as the meniscus, because it is a special shock-absorbing cartilage designed for the stresses placed on the knee joint. The meniscus is simply a shock-absorbing cushion between the bones in the knee joint to prevent the bones from rubbing together. The meniscus is often torn when the leg is turning and strikes a hard object, such as in a spinning back kick. Meniscus damage can also occur when the leg is planted firmly and gets struck from an angle. When the meniscus is damaged, the athlete can often hear or feel a painful click inside the knee. Pain tends to increase when walking down stairs, with the knee sometimes "locking up" or "giving way". When the meniscus is torn an orthopedic surgeon will often go in and re move it. If the tear is extensive the surgeon may opt to staple or suture (stitch) the meniscus back together. This is actually a very simple operation, with the athlete returning to participation within 2-5 weeks. The meniscus cannot heal itself once it is torn because it has a very poor blood supply, nor does it grow a new piece once damaged. If the damage is painful then the best solution is usually to simply have it re moved. Just remember that now you knee will have less cushion between the bones and can later lead to arthritis as the bones begin to rub together. Lastly, there are four main ligaments of the knee: anterior cruciate ligament (ACL), posterior cruciate ligament (PCL), medial collateral ligament (MCL), and the lateral collateral ligament (LCL). The collateral ligaments are on the inside and the outside of the knee, protecting your knee from bending sideways. The cruciate ligaments are found inside of the knee, running from front to back and back to front preventing the thigh from sliding forward or backward on the lower leg. As with muscles, severity of injury to a ligament is measured in degrees of injury from 1°(stretch) to a 3°(complete rupture or tear) sprained ligament. Surprisingly, the ACL is sprained more often by female taekwondo athletes than males. It is believed that this happens in part due to lack of strengthening of the hamstring muscles compared to the quadricep muscles than males do, making the knee rely primarily on the ligaments to support the knee rather than muscle. If the muscles of the knee are not strong enough, or the ligament is already overstretched (hyperflexible) when the athlete is struck by a kick the ACL tears because it is unable to hold the joint together. This often happens when an athlete is kicked from behind while her foot is planted, or when the foot is planted while body is spinning, making contact with opponent. When the ACL is completely torn it must be surgically reconstructed, taking from 5 months up to a year to recover from (average 7-9 months). The PCL can also be damaged, and tends to be damaged more in males than females. In the general public the PCL is rarely reconstructed, but for taekwondo athletes this ligament must be prepared to continue participation in the sport. This is due to the fact that moving backward while spinning requires the protection of the PCL. The PCL generally takes the same amount of time to heal as an ACL, 5-12 months (average 6-8 months). Damage to the MCL & LCL generally occurs when an athlete is struck from either the outside of the knee (damaging MCL) or from the inside o f the knee (damaging the LCL), causing the knee to bend sideways. This injury can occur from being kicked while in a normal stance, or when the supporting leg is kicked out from under an athlete who is either spinning or side kicking. These ligaments tend to stretch considerably (1°-2°) before actually rupturing. Unfortunately once a ligament is stretched it does not shrink to its original length like a rubberband would, but remains at least partially stretched permanently, making the knee joint lose. If the ligament is completely torn, reconstructive surgery is then the only alternative. In addition, the athlete will need to begin a strength program to strengthen the muscles of the area to better protect the ligaments from future injury. Care of Knee Injuries As with an injury to the body, always first check for any deformities which might indicate a broken bone or torn muscle before moving an athlete. Even if there is a suspected fracture, an injury should immediately have ice applied for 15-20 minutes directly to the skin, preferably wrapping the ice on so it doesn't move. If a fracture or torn muscle is suspected immobilize the leg including the joints above and below the point of injury with a solid object or brace. If the fracture is of the shin, then both the knee and ankle must be immobilized so they can't move, which would move the bones that are fractured, causing further damage to the bone. If no fracture is suspected, and the injury is believed to be minor (1°) in nature, then follow ICERS: Ice, Compression wrap on ice, Elevation of injured body part, Rest of injured limb, and Supportive taping or bracing. If the athlete is not allergic to anti-inflammatory drugs, and is over the age of 12, the athlete can begin taking anti-inflammatory drugs with food such as Ibuprofen (Motrin , Nuprin , etc), Orudus , or Aleve , as directed on the bottle or by a physician, to help reduce pain and swelling from the injury. If the injury appears to be a fracture, or a 2°-3° sprained ligament or strained muscle, apply ice, immobilize and transport to the local hospital or orthopedic office. But the best way to handle a knee injury is to prevent it to begin with. Prevention comes in the form of warming up and stretching properly prior to any workout, strengthening ALL muscles (not just the ones you enjoy working), and drinking lots and lots of water. Dehydration itself can cause dmage to muscles, ligaments and cartilage, and can even effect an athlete's gowth if deprived of water to excessively cut weight. These are the basic rules of injury treatment which anyone can follow. Remember to take care of any injury, no matter how minor, IMMEDIATELY, to help reduce chance of further injury...." Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "phil" Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:42:26 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Meditation Stuff To relax body, breath and mind. First get a 6 pack of the strongest beer you can find. sit in a comfortable chair and stair at the 6 pack for a moment. Start with your first one and relax. By the third beer your body should be relaxed and your breathing will start to slow. By the 5th or 6th your mind should be either relaxed or useless, doesn't really matter at this point. More experienced meditation practitioners may need a 12 pack or even a case. Remember never drive after meditating. Phil ------------------------------ From: In_Spec_Ops@gmx.net Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:43:21 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Vipasanna Meditation In MA? Greetings To All Martial Arts Systems, Styles, Organizations and People, Does anyone out there do Vipasanna meditation related to their studies? Tao, Hapkido Student. Koje-do, S. Korea ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 7:20:47 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #432 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.