From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #435 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 25 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 435 In this issue: the_dojang: Pivot? the_dojang: Weapons and their originations the_dojang: Re:15th International Hapkido Seminar 8/17-19 the_dojang: Re: Round house kick the_dojang: RE: Neat Noises the_dojang: RE: Chambering in Taek Kyon the_dojang: Toes the_dojang: Re: More Songahm Stuff the_dojang: Roundhouse kick Re: the_dojang: Re: More Songahm Stuff the_dojang: url the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:00:05 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Pivot? All this talk of round kicks, and base leg got me thinking: What is the most common action of the base foot when throwing a round kick or side kick? Do you start with the base foot already in the finishing position, with the toes facing away from the target, or do you let your base leg pivot DURING the kick so that everything ends together. I have always pivoted DURING the kick, but some TKD's teach to plant the base foot with the toes away, then throw the kick! I believe the hip action of pivoting with the kick adds much more power! Thoughts? Mark Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:34:30 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Weapons and their originations Dear Mr. Tomlinson, >I like American weapons, things like Colt, and Smith and Wesson.. I like practicing with the "traditional weapons" but come on,,I don't worry about someone drawing a sword on me or a Korean Fan,,,etc.. I am more concerned with a knife and a firearm,,, we are in the United States remember,,, not the Silla Kingdom!! Michael Tomlinson< Just in case no one has pointed it out, I believe gunpowder was invented by the Chinese, and firearms by the Japanese or French! Please forgive any inaccuracies, but you understand my point. - I am composing off the top of my head, and the air up here is thin :) I would never presume to tell a Korean what their culture was or should be, but like we often say here in California - "Your in America Now - Speak Spanish!" Getting in the WAY, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:11:02 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re:15th International Hapkido Seminar 8/17-19 In a message dated 7/24/2001 3:49:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << 15th International Hapkido Seminar 8/17-19 >> I would love to go to this seminar. But in October I am going to Korea with Master Hal Whalen and several other of Master Whalen's students for 2 weeks of nothing but Hapkido training. I've been wanting to go to Korea since I was 15, now at 43 it is my first trip. If it weren't for the Korea trip I would be at this seminar, but if I told my wife I was going there in addition to Korea, my next post might be to a service for personals adds. Jose' ------------------------------ From: "David N. Beck" Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:12:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Round house kick Some good points & info: I'd like to add that for the roundhouse Doju Ji teaches is with the ankle bone or just below. The instep as a striking surface is pretty limited - groin and face are fine, but the tarsels are pretty exposed. Anyone who's done a somewhat diagonal roundhouse up into someone's elbow knows what I mean. Toes as a striking surface IS worth practicing, but stressing pointing them out in line with the foot with the ankle bent, and only to targets such as the groin, kidney, femoral artery, etc. Great if you're wearing cowboy boots (here in Texas, that's not uncommon). David N. Beck, WATT Lead Engineer Internet: David.Beck@usa.alcatel.com Phone: 972-519-3103 Address: MS TAND1, 1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:34:20 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Neat Noises Dear Mark: "....Can someone elaborate on what a "mantra" really is?..." In theory every sound is expected to have a harmonic with various conditions, items and situations in the universe. We have all heard stories about the master of shout who was able to drop a bird from a tree with his voice alone. We have also witnessed crystal break with just the right pitch. A mantra is a sound or combination of sounds which is believed to induce or influence various states of consciousness. "Om" the universal sound of the universe is probably the best known and goes back centuries. The modern counterpart are those various audio tapes you can buy that have subliminal sounds, or patterns which are thought to induce better memory, concentration, sleep-- even sex. (BTW: That last one is a crock. I bought that tape and played it 5 times one night and only four of the cycles worked. :-) ) There is nothing I have found to be particularly special about mantras including ones that you make up for yourself such a a syncopated phrase, an alliteration, some onomatopoetic series of words or even a quote from a good book (maybe THE Good Book?). Hope this helps. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:39:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Chambering in Taek Kyon Dear Folks: "... When I trained in Shotokan, this kick was almost exactly the same as in ITF TKD, The big difference I think is between WTF TKD versus Japanese Karate and also versus ITF TKD. That is in how the kick is chambered. In the old style, (Japanese and ITF) the knee is chambered so your knees is parallel to the floor and the kick goes around (mawashi geri means, I believe around the house kick). So you go around the house, or round house. Advantage-more power. Disadvantage-easier to see it comming, maybe slower. In WTF TKD the knee is chambered in front of you like you are going to do a front kick then you turn your hips and the kick becomes a round kick. The chamber is in front of you as opposed to on the side...." I was struck by this, Jose, as of course I do the kick with the set of the leg parallel to the floor and outside the outline of the body. I was wondering if any of the contributors on the Net with background in authentic Taek kyon have any insight into which way they have been taught to chamber their RH kick. This assumes, of course, that Taek Kyon does indeed have such a kick in their curriculum. Anyone? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:33:43 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Toes Dave writes: > I am curious about the application of striking with the toes when executing > a roundhouse kick. Is it to strike a pressure point? I ask because I have > always been told to strike with with either the ball of the foot or the > "top"/ instep of the foot depending on application. Whenever I have > inadvertantly struck with my toes it has been painful. Hello Dave. You are correct on the pressure point idea. These are "old" kicks that were part of the curriculum, and I have refused to drop them. I can't justify dropping things from the curriculum just because it no longer suits today's training habits. There is a certain historical value to old techniques like toe kicking, finger spears, (or certain weapon techniques like the fan). Just as the Kwan Soo (finger spear) breaking techniques need to have the fingers conditioned, the same is true for the toe kicks. As you pointed out, "inadvertantly" can be thought of as "with insufficient training". Anything hit with a tool that is not trained for the job usually hurts. I often demonstrate finger spear breaking technique when I was younger. However, as I aged, I had to admit (as much as I hated to do it) that the bones in my body were no longer as elastic as they once were. It was prudent to stop the practice, and the last time I performed it (and a thumb break - Um Ji Gwan) was at my 25th tournament and Masters' demo in 1990. Many students still practice finger spears in their hyung etc., but few could actually use the technique without breaking their fingers. Students are simply not willing to "condition their hands and feet anylonger, and now the kick is relegated to "this is what we used to do". Ofcourse, with shoes on, it is a different story. BTW, doing such breaking demos never turned the crowd on. Most don't have a clue on what you are doing, many think you are a nutcase, and the rest say you faked it. You do it for yourself. Like performing a beautiful hyung. Sincerely, Rudy National Korean Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: Clothahump Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:38:34 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: More Songahm Stuff > From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:46:25 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: RE: More Songham Stuff > > Dear Clothahump (Is that how you want to be addressed?): Lord and Master of the Universe will suffice :-) > Thanks for taking the time and patience to respond. I have a better idea of > how to frame my questions now. > > I sounds as though the Songham style of TKD post-dated the other forms of > TKD in that I read your comment about GM Lee modifying the TKD by doing > research and adding more kicking. Is there a way of knowing just what kind > of research he conducted to make the choices about which kicks to add and > how those kicks were to be executed. I think what I am asking with this > question is that in making TKD something that anyone can do were the kicks > adjusted to make them easier, more authentically Korean (read also closer to > Taek kyon) or simply to distinguish them from the larger TKD population? My understanding is that he researched Taekyon and Soobak as well as some other lesser styles. I don't know about making them "authentic" Korean - he simply wanted to return to the concept that Korean styles emphasize kicking more than hands. > What weapons do the ATA members currently practice and how are those > weapons the same or different from the weapons originally identified by GM > Lee? We do the single and double song jeol bong, single and double bong mang ee, jang bong, jee pong ee, sahm dahn bong. (respectively nunchaku, short stick, long staff, cane, tri-sectional staff). We also do pressure points, ground fighting, joint locks and some other goodies. Most of the weapons have a Korean background, but we are teaching other martial arts specifically for them, such as the short sticks, where we teach Escrima. > From what I understand Gen Choi had, at one point encouraged the > expansion of self-defense techniques in TKD including a proposed adoption of > some of the HKD curriculum. I notice that you didn't mention such material > in your ATA response. Is this another place where Songham TKD differes from > the rest of the TKD community. Are there particular provisions that Songham > TKD makes for self-defense applications? Oh, self defense is an integral part of the curriculum. We also have a specialty program called Spontaneous Self Defense that we are working into the curriculum as well. It is intensified training in self-defense responses to a variety of general attacks and it's pretty keen. Hope this helps! ------------------------------ From: "Dizzy S." Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:42:09 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Roundhouse kick Hiya all. In my dojang, we are taught three ways to do the roundhouse kick. #1 is to pivot our foot 180 degrees, and the knee of the kicking leg parrell to the floor. The kick snaps out and in again (with the instep or ball of the foot). #2 is faking a front kick (chambering the knee for a front kick), then "flipping" the knee for a roundhouse (mainly for sparring). #3 is my favorite. The Thai boxing way hee hee. That is to kick low with the shin. That hurts to get hit with them! I've been on the recieving end of one. OUCH!! We also learn the "reverse" roundhouse kick. Hard to learn (hard to explain too lol), but very effective :o) Ok, that makes four. Oh well lol. Tang Soo! Dizzy 6th gup TSD www.imahq.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:20:51 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: More Songahm Stuff > My understanding is that he researched Taekyon and Soobak as well as ... Now that would be interesting. One wonders where the subaki info came from. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:43:53 PDT Subject: the_dojang: url How Taekwondo was practiced during the Silla dynasty, from Korea Times: http://www.hankookilbo.co.kr/kt_sports/200009/t20000908175941471110.htm :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:44:21 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #435 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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