From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #436 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 25 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 436 In this issue: the_dojang: Round house kick the_dojang: Pivot the_dojang: Ancient Korean martial arts the_dojang: Teaching Forms? the_dojang: Round Kicks the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #435 the_dojang: Roundhouse kick the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1111 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mac" Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:59:41 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Round house kick << Great if you're wearing cowboy boots (here in Texas, that's not uncommon).>> David, I always wear cowboy boots too - pointed toes and large heals - great for kicking. Mac Houston, TX ------------------------------ From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:28:52 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Pivot Mark said "I have always pivoted DURING the kick, but some TKD's teach to plant the base foot with the toes away, then throw the kick! I believe the hip action of pivoting with the kick adds much more power!" We I teach beginning students how we do a roundhouse kick I teach them to first pivot completely then kick. Fewer steps for the new student to get confused with. As the students ability progresses we then encourage them to begin to pivot as they are throwing the kick. Less telegraphing. Ken Legendre 3rd Dan TKD innae@netexpress.net ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Pratt" Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:22:57 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Ancient Korean martial arts Ray, You wrote: >> How Taekwondo was practiced during the Silla dynasty, from Korea Times: http://www.hankookilbo.co.kr/kt_sports/200009/t20000908175941471110.htm << The text looks very familiar. I believe that they have copied the history section of the WTF manuals. I believe someone despicable once wrote that if you keep repeating the same lies long enough then they become the truth. (Slightly unfair I know but the history they quote does not make a complete jigsaw by a long way) Andrew ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:42:41 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Teaching Forms? I know that some forms are 'copyrighted' (i.e. ATA Songahm TKD), so teaching them outside their schools is not permitted. Are other forms copyrighted and equally not allowed to be taught outside their respective associations? In the arts, Mark mark.lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 05:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Round Kicks Bruce Wrote: "....Along the same lines I have a question. I was wondering how many people kick with their foot pivoted 180 degrees (so foot pointed directly away from kick) as opposed to 90 degrees or less? Is this a Japanese or Korean thing? Or is this a personal preference thing? I can see there are benefits to kicking both ways, but I think not pivoting 180 degrees puts a lot of strain on the knee. This is not meant as an attack on not pivoting just my observation, and questions for those of you who dont pivot 180 degrees...." - ------------------------------------------------------ I do the round kick in a variety of ways based on what I'm doing with it. My beginners are taught to chamber with the leg parallel to the floor and make the circle (round motion) in a plane parallel to the floor (for body height kicks). They are also taught to strike with the instep and not asked to break boards. If you are breaking or "digging" around/through someone's gaurds, or say want to strike the solar plexus in a WTF type contact match, I would use the ball of the foot (we also call this a breaking round kick). When I can get my leg up that high, I use a shin striking area for the head (and hitting the bag really hard). I always emphasize the 135 to 180 degree pivot of the standing foot. I don't know any other way to get muscle addition and the hip turned over. If I'm sparring you can expect a front leg 45 degree round kick striking with the shin and with very little to no chamber (knees, thigh, abdomen, kidney or floating rib). As far as Korean version I will add this comment for thought. I don't know of any Japanese styles that teach the jump 360 degree (Cyclone) round kick. IMHO to do this kick you must chamber ITF style (knee points at or just outside the target parallel to the floor) or will end up with a jump 360 crescent/round kick. The power is generated because the hip rolls over into the kick, as the leg is whipped from outside the target through the target. Maybe someone who's also practiced Japanese Karate (like Master Mac) will correct me and tell me Japanese Karate folks do the cyclone round kick too, but I haven't seen it. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:28:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #435 Dear Rudy: "...We begin by sitting on our heels with the toes bent under. This not only helps stretch the toes, but it also facilitates getting up quicker. Next, I INSIST that, during any other exercise where this is possible (like stretching), my students position their foot for various kicks. Doing this while a student is stretching makes this easier, because they don't have the problem of balancing AND foot alignment...." I have been thinking about this for a bit and thought I would go ahead and share it after that last flurry of posts. The Okinawan Karate master Choyon Miyagi was said to have put on a demonstration where he chalked the bottoms of his feet and lept high enough to leave his prints on the ceiling. I mention this because in the same demonstration he was said to have kicked large kerosene cans with the toe of his foot, puncturing the sides of the cans. GM Myung, Kwang Sik teaches a forward kick executed with the impact taken by the extended, tightened toes of the foot. He has assured everyone that such a kick is viable with adequate conditioning. At my age, however, I believe the Korean word for "conditioning" is "arthritis" ( I beleive the honorific title of address is "master-gimp--"). Kerosene cans around the world, hearing this, will sleep well tonight. :-) Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:03:34 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Roundhouse kick Jose wrote: > WTF TKD versus Japanese Karate and also versus ITF TKD. That is in how the > kick is chambered. In the old style, (Japanese and ITF) the knee is > chambered > so your knees is parallel to the floor and the kick goes around (mawashi geri > means, I believe around the house kick). So you go around the house, or round > house. Advantage-more power. Disadvantage-easier to see it comming, maybe > slower. In WTF TKD the knee is chambered in front of you like you are going > to do a front kick then you turn your hips and the kick becomes a round kick. > The chamber is in front of you as opposed to on the side...." Bruce wrote: > I was struck by this, Jose, as of course I do the kick with the set of the > leg parallel to the floor and outside the outline of the body. I was > wondering if any of the contributors on the Net with background in authentic > Taek kyon have any insight into which way they have been taught to chamber > their RH kick. This assumes, of course, that Taek Kyon does indeed have such > a kick in their curriculum. Anyone? I think both WTF and ITF players keep their leg parallel with the ground. There is of course also the principle of reducing visual cues by raising the knee straight up as the chamber for all of the kicks, and then rotating the body at the last second. That way, the opponent has less of a chance to know what you're throwing. Bill "Superfoot" Wallace was famous for this, as was Keith Vitali. The main difference I saw was that the WTFers kick with follow-through, turning that base foot so it points 180 degress away from the target. The ITFers kick as a snap kick, with the base foot turned 90 degrees from the target. GM Son in NYC teaches students to stiffen everything as they hit, which REALLY looks strange. The t'aekkyeon I studied in 1987 was very much like the WTF style of kicking. By the way, the method of reducing visual cues also adds a whipping action, which can tear up your knee after a while. But it probably is a better way of kicking, IMHO. Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 8:02:39 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #436 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.