From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #451 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 31 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 451 In this issue: the_dojang: looking for hard back Muye Dobo Tongji the_dojang: Knuckle Push-ups Re: the_dojang: looking for hard back Muye Dobo Tongji the_dojang: Academia the_dojang: Planet of the... "Kicking" Apes??? the_dojang: Speaking of pushups... the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #450 the_dojang: RE: Korean Weapons the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #449 the_dojang: Re: Dat Sine Wave Thang the_dojang: creating tradition Re: the_dojang: Re: Dat Sine Wave Thang the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1222 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: c <24wide@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:30:52 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: looking for hard back Muye Dobo Tongji I am looking for two HARD BACK editions of the Muye Dobo Tongji. If anyone wants to sell one or has a link to a seller, please let me know. thanks DBN Chris ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Knuckle Push-ups I agree with Ray, If you pay a lot of money for "push-up bars" they will orient you arms/wrist/fist like a knuckle push-up, I actually prefer them over palm push-ups for that reason. I also agree with Bruce on youth anatomy. Just not designed to punch through boards/bricks etc. or support the weight of the body. I use the idea of a bell shaped curve with age tweleve at the lower fat end of the curve and about age 50 at the upper end, outside that range impact and knuckle push-up are not a good idea IMVHO, younger not enough cartlidge, older too brittle. Now if you're between age 13 and 49 and have a need to punch through wood armour, brick walls, etc. then they will desensatise (sp?) the skin and build up cartlidge although not as fast as punching the Heavy Bag or Makiwara. Some women really thought Mas Oyama had sexy hands :-) Some have argued that protrueded knuckles make it easier to access some pain compliance points on the body also... Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:10:46 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: looking for hard back Muye Dobo Tongji > I am looking for two HARD BACK editions of the Muye Dobo Tongji. If > anyone wants to sell one or has a link to a seller, please let me know. > thanks DBN Chris Check Amazon.com and search for "muye". They carry both hard and softback. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: jerseyj Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Academia Rudy wrote: ==== IMHO, a student needs to do some hard thinking before approaching his Instructor with advise on the curriculum. This does not mean one should not form opinions, it simply means there is a time and a place to voice them. Sincerely, Rudy ==== Hard thinking is a good idea, but I'd hate to train at a place where the master instructor was not open to at least listening to new ideas. For instance, in one school where I was training they did a certain type of stretch. I was doing some reading and discovered that this type of stretch could be injurious rather than helpful. I RESPECTFULY brought this to the attention of the instructor, and indeed, he checked it out and agreed with my assessment and modifed the stretches. There's an ancient proverb (no, not oriental in origin) that goes something like this: "Who is the wise person ? The one that learns from all others". Jerry p.s. students in my High School and the two colleges I went to DID have a voice in the curriculum. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement and success have no meaning." - Benjamin Franklin +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: "Ron Bain" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:46:07 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Planet of the... "Kicking" Apes??? Hi all, Cool video for those that haven't come across this one yet: >http://www.xkot.net/images/karatechimp.mpeg >The link above goes to a video of a monkey that has been taught karate. Ron ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:03:45 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Speaking of pushups... On the subject of knuckle pushups and other manly acts... We had this Russian cat come to our school one time to do sort of a short seminar. He was a boxing coach, and had been trained in martial arts during his tenior in the military. When I asked him the name of what he was teaching, he would just reply, "Is just Rrruuussian Method". Anyway, this guy had some unusual conditioning methods to say the least. He could do pushups on his fingers, knuckles, wrists, back of his hands...whatever, he could do it. He could get into the "up position" for a pushup and then ballistically switch between his knuckles, fingertips, wrists, etc without missing a beat. You just had to see it...blew me away. In referance to the fingertip pushups, he said, "Deez good for you eeenergy". Should have asked him what he meant by "eeenergy", but we never saw him again. BTW, I've heard that you should not do pushups on your knuckles, but have failed to hear WHY. Also, I'm kinda with Ray...I did them for years, and they never bothered me. Who knows? The hindu squats were supposed to blow out my knees, but I'm still going, and going, and going, and going..... Craig "Never Mix Pushups and Vodka" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #450 Could you identify circumstances where you could legally carry your "korean" nunchukas? I am working from memory. If I make a mistatement, it is unintentional. I am not at work, and by the time I get there tomorrow, I will have forgotten the question. In NY, you can carry them to and from the dojang. If they are carried outside a vehicle, carry them in a gym bag. Now, here is the part that makes no sense. The above is found in the Vehicle and Traffic Law. (Do not ask me why I have no idea.) Neal Konecky ===== "Our government, conceived in freedom and purchased with blood, can be preserved only by constant vigilance" William Jennings Bryan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Sam Frantz Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:05:10 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Korean Weapons Tom, thanks for your reply. Bruce, thank you as well. You bring up a good point by questioning my description of the nunchaku as "Korean." I have always understood it to be Japanese or Okinawan in origin and only refer to it as Korean because some Korean martial arts have adopted it in their curriculum (and this is a Korean MA list, after all). Sorry for any confusion. I will address your questions to the best of my ability and look forward to your thoughts. >Could you identify circumstances where you could legally carry your "korean" >nunchukas? This obviously varies by location. In California, for example, mere posession of nunchaku is prohibited by law (except for in the dojang). Here in Minnesota, however, the most relevant statute is 625.16, which reads: "Whoever shall go armed with a dirk, dagger, sword, pistol, or other offensive and dangerous weapon, without reasonable cause to fear an assault or other injury or violence to person, family, or property, may, on complaint of any other person having reasonable cause to fear an injury or breach of the peace, be required to find sureties for keeping the peace, for a term not exceeding six months, with the right of appealing as before provided." The nunchaku is certainly a dangerous weapon and I would not necessarily have "reasonable cause to fear an assault." The law as I read it, though, says that I cannot be sentenced for merely carrying a dangerous weapon; I need to also cause another person to become fearful enough to complain. With responsible handling and concealment of the nunchaku, this should be easy to avoid. I am aware of no local law that would prohibit carrying a nunchaku. Virtually all state and local weapons laws in Minnesota deal with firearms. Can somebody give me a law-enforcement perspective on this? >In fact, would you mind characterizing circumstances where you would use >such a weapon for self-defense? Sure, but first I will point out that I have not yet achieved sufficient proficiency in this weapon to be comfortable using it for defensive purposes. I brought up the issue of self-defense largely out of curiosity. That said, I can envision using the nunchaku against an aggressive, possibly armed, attacker. The nunchaku's speed, range, and power would be an asset in a confrontation. Moreover, my attacker is unlikely to have the skill to be able to use the weapon against me. >Is the need to carry arcane weapons a real big problem where you're from--- >originally? I'm not sure what you mean by this. However, I believe that our moderator sometimes carries his escrima stick in his car. Do you feel that this is inappropriate as well? >BTW: I thought "ssahng jeol bong" was Korean for "gotta live one here". I'm curious, why the skepticism? Thanks, Sam ------------------------------ From: "Clifford Vaught" Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 01:54:06 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #449 George, I would call it arrogant and inappropriate to say it's perfectly okay to change a rank because technically you wouldn't be wrong. Whether it's Cho Dan because the Japanese have "Sho Dan" is irrelevant. The whole Dan ranks by degree is Chinese (Il, E, Sam, Sa, O, ...). It's no more Korean that Il or Cho. What is appropriate is to respect that which went before - that's why it's called tradition. Soo Bahk!! Cliff Having said all that, it's perfectly okay for yours, or any instructor, to call the appropriate rank "Il Dan" instead of "Cho Dan"--it just would not be "traditional" to do that. - - ------------------------- George Rudolph Mad Scientist Motorola ASDC - - ------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Richard Zaruba Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:30:10 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Dat Sine Wave Thang > I know it sounds compilcated and it is. However, it is very effective. When > the motion was called "spring style", tests where done at Colorado State > University. I don't have the official results anymore (convient -- isn't > it!) but this motion was shown to be more powerful and no slower. I would like to know who conducted the research, what methods were used in the testing procedures and what the results were. If you could provide a full citation for the research so I could obtain the full reference I would be grateful. Sincerely, Rich _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba Department of Anatomy & Cell Biology University of North Dakota School of Medicine 501 North Columbia Road P.O. Box 9037 Grand Forks, ND 58202-9037 zaruba@medicine.nodak.edu 701.777.3952 office 701.777.2576 lab 701.777.2477 fax ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:26:36 PDT Subject: the_dojang: creating tradition > appropriate rank "Il Dan" instead of "Cho Dan"--it just would not be > "traditional" to do that. Traditions must start somewhere. Use of Il Dan is now traditional in many TKD schools, however, use of Cho Dan is older. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:31:11 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Dat Sine Wave Thang > > I know it sounds compilcated and it is. However, it is very effective. When > > the motion was called "spring style", tests where done at Colorado State > > University. I don't have the official results anymore (convient -- isn't > > it!) but this motion was shown to be more powerful and no slower. > > I would like to know who conducted the research, what methods were used in > the testing procedures and what the results were. If you could provide a > full citation for the research so I could obtain the full reference I would > be grateful. If anyone would know it would probably be Dave Steffen at CSU, steffend@lamar.colostate.edu. I seem to recall a discussion of the physics of the sine wave here on the digest a couple years ago in which Dave participated. Not sure the above was the actual outcome, but I could be mistaken. You might search thru the archives to see if you can bring it up. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:34:59 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #451 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.