From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #452 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 1 Aug 2001 Vol 08 : Num 452 In this issue: the_dojang: Academia the_dojang: Push ups the_dojang: Juhl Bong the_dojang: RE: cho dan v il dan the_dojang: Re: Mu Yei stuff the_dojang: looking for (hard back) Muye Dobo Tongji the_dojang: Re: Korean Weapons Stuff the_dojang: Re: Buddhism, Confucianism and teachers too the_dojang: Carrying Weapons the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1222 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:33:31 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Academia Jersey writes: > For instance, in one school where I was training > they did a certain type of stretch. I was doing some reading > and discovered that this type of stretch could be injurious > rather than helpful. > I RESPECTFULY brought this to the attention > of the instructor, and indeed, he checked it out and agreed > with my assessment and modifed the stretches. Hello Jersey: Your sentence reads like YOU were the one that discovered the possible problem with stretching. Actually you tell us that someone else discovered it, and you merely read THEIR assessment. Big difference! Whichever way intended, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the issue. In fact, long before NAPMAA even thought about it, I went back to University at an age where most people think of retirement in order to gain more knowledge on Exercise Science. However, I was strictly speaking on martial art curriculum. BTW, do you honestly believe that you could make an improvement on the high school curriculum? Even as we speak, a great deal of students attending University have problems passing English 101 and basic Math skills:) Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:58:19 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Push ups Craig writes: > Anyway, this guy had some unusual conditioning methods to say the least. He > could do pushups on his fingers, knuckles, wrists, back of his > hands...whatever, he could do it. He could get into the "up position" for a > pushup and then ballistically switch between his knuckles, fingertips, > wrists, etc without missing a beat. Hi Craig: These sort of push ups were regular fare in my old Dojang for every class. One night we'd focus on the flipping between wrists, palms, knuckles, etc. The next night we'd do the fingertips. The fingertip pushups had to be done with the actual tips of the fingers. We normally did ten, take away one finger - do ten more, take another away - do ten more etc. When we were down to just the thumbs, we would begin adding fingers again. Great for making the fingers strong enough to get at those pressure points. A variety would be to begin with ten pushups. Begin again and count to twenty, begin again and count to thirty etc. When you get to the one hundred mark that way, your arms have definitely had a workout. Ofcourse, at that time, our shower was a cold water hose over the sump hole (and we HAD to take showers after class as part of training the mind). What mind???? Alas, thangs aint like they usta be. Thanks for the memory though. BTW, I've actually had some of my students ask me to reintroduce my old training schedule. Perhaps the pendulum is swinging the other way again:) Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:06:12 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Juhl Bong Sam writes: > You bring up a good point by questioning my > description of the nunchaku as "Korean." I have always understood it to be > Japanese or Okinawan in origin and only refer to it as Korean because some > Korean martial arts have adopted it Hello Sam: Korean eat rice and cultivate it. Why do we believe that they did not have the same simple tools to do this job? While some Korean martial arts may have adopted it, others actually have had it in their curriculum before it became fashionable. BTW, underneath all that venom, Bruce is really a nice guy:) Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: "Master Frank Clay" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:35:59 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: cho dan v il dan well since we are on the topic... what about cho dan bo? any comparisons? what was the original use of this? etc... ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:44:52 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Mu Yei stuff Dear Chris: "...I am looking for two HARD BACK editions of the Muye Dobo Tongji. If >anyone wants to sell one or has a link to a seller, please let me know. >thanks...." You'll probably want to contact Turtle Press (800-788-8785) as they carry both the soft cover and hard cover and I believe were the original source for the Kim translation. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: c <24wide@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:12:34 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: looking for (hard back) Muye Dobo Tongji I am looking for two HARD BACK editions of the Muye Dobo Tongji. If anyone wants to sell one or has a link to a seller, please let me know. I have checked Amazon they are out of the Hard back. Also Turtlepress is out of the hard back. thanks DBN Chris ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:14:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Korean Weapons Stuff Dear Sam: Thanks for not taking offense at my t-i-c comment. No offense was intended to you. What I am hoping to draw attention to is what I consider to be two very important implications for the Korean arts and the people who learn/teach them. 1.) I don't think the Korean arts are well served by regularly absorbing weapons and techniques from other arts, especially when those are then represented as "Korean" (which to me has usually suggested some natural or integrated part of the original whole). I hope you are hearing that I am NOT against people practicing techniques or weapons of other arts as a way of expanding their catalogue of information. I would say that this is almost a responsibility of any good practitioner. However, I balk at the idea of taking material from BJJ, JKD, Kali, Muay Thai etc, and presenting it as though the Korean arts had always had this material. Rather I would like to see instructors tell their students that "this is what I know the Korean art to have, and now, by the way, here are some interesting things that might help you that come from (whatever)....". We Hapkido people have gotten ourselves into enough trouble presenting Hapkido arts as "eclectic." (Hell, we-re so damn ecelectic sometimes, even WE don't know what constitutes our art!! :-) ) I will also say that I believe that we Korean practitioners have a reponsibility to teach those weapons more generally accepted as part and parcel of our curriculum before exposing students to systems from outside of the KMA. 2.) I believe that we have a responsibility to provide instruction which will help the student to work in the best interests of our community. I think this includes respecting the laws and ord. of that community. Teaching a student facility in a weapon which is not supported by laws or local ordinances can easily set the student up for trouble later and contributes to the mistaken view that MA practitioners are somehow anomalous or fringe members of the community. Traditional KMA have less dramatic tools such as the short, stick, mini-stick and cane which in my view are every bit as effective in a self-defense situation. If you are a person who supports cross-training in other arts, these weapons are also much more readily disposed towards being used with techniques and biomechanics one could pick-up from attending alternative seminars (ie. pressure point, Escrima, Arnis). Certainly I would not carry my jin guem (live sword) in the car with me, but I can imagine that you would have a lot less to explain to a cop at a traffic stop regarding a cane or short stick than say, nunchuka or sai. I will also go out on a limb here and say that I beleive that weapons such as the came and short stick would lend themselves to your using weapons-of-opportunity much better than the chucks. I hope this makes things a bit clearer. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:59:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Buddhism, Confucianism and teachers too Dear Brian: I think you are right about the music and the instruments.I posted a response to Sam about the place I see for weapons and techniques from outside of Korean traditions so I won't belabor that point here. I agree most whole-heartedly that KMA benefit greatlt from people stepping outside of their art-of-choice such as TKD, TSD or HKD and becoming familiar with the weapons and techniques of other arts and styles. The issue that I have is when that new material is then represented as having been "Korean" all along. The process by which the Korean arts developed by absorbing, modifying and incorporating material from neighboring cultures such as Japan and China is a slow and very selective one and I believe is beyond the perview of a single individual to take upon themselves. On the other hand, I think you are absolutely right that the KMA will stagnate with out continual review of how and why we do things, leaving ourselves open to modification. I just think that while waiting for the modification process to take hold we should be giving recognition to the source from which we are stealing --- er-- appropriating our material. I also don't want to belabor the point about "ownership". We are singing in chorus here. For my part, I don't see finding a teacher in a place where they can't teach a student anything further as odd as maybe you might. Most MA instructors don't really know all that much about what they are doing, and to actually find an individual who does know what they are doing and has the depth and understanding to support an on-going relationship of many years is a true exception. While I regularly take people such as Lee, Ji, Myung and others to task for some of their failings or practices the fact is these guys are gold mines of information and ability that we need to spend more time with. But I still say that sooner or later a student will want to move into "new-territory". As you pointed out above thats how our arts stay vital. When this happens a good teacher must be able to help that student either integrate the new material into the existing framework of what they teach or assist the student in moving on to the next stage of their training. I believe both this issue AND the last "hot button" topic ("social skills") are two places where most schools miss the boat. As I mentioned before, the Vietnamese Monk Thich Naht Han (theres that spelling problem again) supports the idea of "engaged Buddhism." The idea is that Buddhists are not --- need not be--- people who sit around all day chanting and contemplating their navels. Rather we Buddhists need to be actively working within our cultures and communitys to draw the best out of them and the people in them. I see KMA the same, and readily report that this has been an integral part of the martial tradition in Korean for centuries. MA have for generations been movers and shakers, protectors, leaders, teachers, and organizers in the community. I hear a lot of people talking about combat, and what works in a bar fight. What I don't hear people dealing with are the needs of their community, or the individuals natural tendency towards immediate gratification, impatience, nacissism and many other character flaws that sound training could help with. BTW: I totally agree with your comment about "hiding" behind ones curriculum as I have heard more than one teacher state that addressing personality or value issues in their student "...ain't my job". To my way of thinking, if someone identifies themselves as a teacher they are saying they take the whole responsibility package and not pick and choose whats amenable to them. Great string!! Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Carrying Weapons The following is from the code of Georgia. Basically it is illegal to carry a weapon concealed but not openly...unless you go to a public place... So you could carry Ssang Jeol Bong, Dando, Jang Gum, Rope, Tonfa, Sai, Kwon Do, Tibetian Gophers, Frying Pan, tire iron or whatever as long as it's in plain open view and not to a public place.... Expanding on this, I assume I should be carrying my tactical folder clipped to the belt in full view as opposed to cliped to the pocket with only the clip exposed... Yours in Jung Do, Charles R. Moja Kwan 16-11-126. (a) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon when such person knowingly has or carries about his or her person, unless in an open manner and fully exposed to view, any bludgeon, metal knuckles, firearm, knife designed for the purpose of offense and defense, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character outside of his or her home or place of business, except as permitted under this Code section. (b) Upon conviction of the offense of carrying a concealed weapon, a person shall be punished as follows: (1) For the first offense, he or she shall be guilty of a misdemeanor; and (2) For the second offense, and for any subsequent offense, he or she shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be imprisoned for not less than two years and not more than five years. (c) This Code section shall not permit, outside of his or her home, motor vehicle, or place of business, the concealed carrying of a pistol, revolver, or concealable firearm by any person unless that person has on his or her person a valid license issued under Code Section 16-11-129 and the pistol, revolver, or firearm may only be carried in a shoulder holster, waist belt holster, any other holster, hipgrip, or any other similar device, in which event the weapon may be concealed by the person's clothing, or a handbag, purse, attache case, briefcase, or other closed container. Carrying on the person in a concealed manner other than as provided in this subsection shall not be permitted and shall be a violation of this Code section. BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF GEORGIA: SECTION 1. Part 3 of Article 4 of Chapter 11 of Title 16 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to carrying and possession of firearms, is amended by striking in its entirety Code Section 16_11_127, relating to carrying deadly weapons to or at public gatherings, and inserting in lieu thereof a new Code Section 16_11_127 to read as follows: "16_11_127. (a) Except as provided in Code Section 16_11_127.1, a person is guilty of a misdemeanor when he or she carries to or while at a public gathering any explosive compound, firearm, or knife designed for the purpose of offense and defense; provided, however, that the provisions of this subsection shall not apply to a person who carries a firearm or knife to or while at a public gathering, other than a courthouse or an establishment at which alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises and more than 50 percent of revenues are generated by such sale of alcoholic beverages, if such person is licensed to carry a pistol or revolver pursuant to the provisions of Code Section 16_11_129. (b) For the purpose of this Code section, 'public gathering' shall include, but shall not be limited to, athletic or sporting events, churches or church functions, political rallies or functions, publicly owned or operated buildings, or establishments at which alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises. Nothing in this Code section shall otherwise prohibit the carrying of a firearm in any other public place by a person licensed or permitted to carry such firearm by this part. (c) This Code section shall not apply to competitors participating in organized sport shooting events. Law enforcement officers, peace officers retired from state or federal law enforcement agencies, judges, magistrates, solicitors_general, and district attorneys may carry pistols in publicly owned or operated buildings." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! 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