From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #453 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 1 Aug 2001 Vol 08 : Num 453 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #452 the_dojang: RE: Academic Misc the_dojang: RE: Whats that? the_dojang: Weapons the_dojang: knives the_dojang: General Choi's ITF TKD Encyclopedia the_dojang: Re: Unknown Hyungs Re: the_dojang: looking for hard back Muye Dobo Tongji the_dojang: Re: knee problems with certain exercises the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1222 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerseyj Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #452 Rudy writes: > From: "Rudy Timmerman" > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:33:31 -0400 > Subject: the_dojang: Academia > > Jersey writes: > > For instance, in one school where I was training > > they did a certain type of stretch. I was doing some reading > > and discovered that this type of stretch could be injurious > > rather than helpful. > > > I RESPECTFULY brought this to the attention > > of the instructor, and indeed, he checked it out and agreed > > with my assessment and modifed the stretches. > > Hello Jersey: > Your sentence reads like YOU were the one that discovered the possible > problem with stretching. Actually you tell us that someone else discovered > it, and you merely read THEIR assessment. Big difference! Sorry for the confusion, but hopefully it's clear that I read something , related it to what was going on in the dojang and was concerned, and brought it to the attention of the Master Instructor. > > BTW, do you honestly believe that you could make an improvement on the high > school curriculum? Even as we speak, a great deal of students attending > University have problems passing English 101 and basic Math skills:) The fact that a student has shortcomings in one area, dones not preclude them from making very intelligent contributions in other areas. There is little or no cost, in my humble opinion, to listen to the suggestions of students and evaluate them for application. Often times, gems of wisdom come from the most unlikely places. It may be instructive to the instructor to hear things from the students perspective. Jerry +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement and success have no meaning." - Benjamin Franklin +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:55:57 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Academic Misc Dear Rudy: "...BTW, underneath all that venom, Bruce is really a nice guy:)..." Here I go and work long and hard to build up my rep as a vemonous bush-wacker and you go and let the cat out of the bag. BTW: Your welcome. I hope you find the reading interesting. RE: Academia Misc 1.) I, too, was one of those folks who was raised up on the push-up, knuckle-pushup, push-up-as-behavior-correction-tool, and the using of multiple formats for doing the push-ups (incl on the back of the hand). I will also say that I appeciate the use of conditioning to make sure that the body can cash the checks that our mind and situations present. That said, I think its important to examine HOW we are using this conditioning tool. For instance, I would still support Rays' approach given that the knuckle-push-ups are done on a mat and though I don't have any data on this, perhaps this would be just as good as doing them with the knuckles wrapped. I go back to what Thomas was saying about playing the piano and have to say that most of the students I have hold day-jobs that don't always support either this kind of conditioning (ie. desk-jockies, clerks) because of the need not to impair fine motor skills. Along this line there are also other occupations which require both fine motor skills (ie. nursing) as well as public contact where individuals might find protruding knuckles, callous, and scarring unsightly. Lastly, while I know that I can't keep time from marching on, I certainly don't want to do anything that would cause it to drag its feet across parts of my body. I still hold that such conditioning can promote unnecessary degrading of the joints in the hand. 2.) In the matter of bringing material back to the school I didn't indicate a rank because I think its an on-going concern that needs to be addressed on a regular basis. I know that occasionally some teachers address this by simply forbidding students to attend any activities other than those of their school or organization. I suppose its a neat solution but one that I see serving the teacher and the art more than the needs of the student. I suppose you could make an arguement for the teacher seeing this as an effort on the part of the student to improve the masters' curriculum, and yes, I suppose it could produce hard feelings. I don't know that it has to. I often have people who come to my class who have had Judo expereince and want to execute the Shoulder throw in Judo (sport) fashion. This gives me a chance to do a comparison between the sport application and the combat application of the same technique. I have also had folks who have done BJJ and JKD and helped them to make a place for that material within the Hapkido framework while still respecting the nature of my art. I know that this is probably not a popular concept among some schools. I often wonder if the message that we send to our students in that case is not unlike the parent who reports that they want to a raise a child who is an independent thinker only to abreact when the child actually DOES start thinking for themselves--- and not always the thoughts that the parent intended! Students can encourage change from their position (and yes, I have seen this work at the university level). I also think that if suggesting ways of doing things, presenting new material, seeking to further a pursuit of additional interst is threatening the teacher (and causes the students dismissal) maybe that was not the sort of school where the student need to be from the start. I honestly believe ( and this goes back to my comments Sam about the weapons) that we teachers are mandated to help our students become critical thinkers about what they are studying. This means helping them to understand and appreciate what it is that they are trying to do with their efforts. If a student brings me Praying Mantis or Northern Long Fist and asks me why we don't do our techniques like the chin na aspects of these arts I feel I should damn well have some way of either answering or helping the student to find the answer. I also think my response should be something more sophisticated than ".."cuz I said so.". Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:58:47 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Whats that? Dear Frank: "...well since we are on the topic... what about cho dan bo?..." I would comment but I am not familiar with this. Can I get a little help? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Sawyer, Mark D., M.D." Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:53:15 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Weapons Beginner perspective on the weapons issue... The martial arts have obviously cross-fertilized over time, what with military conquests and all. I think it's nice, and perhaps even necessary to respect the *origin* of a particular weapon (I love the history of this stuff). Having said that, one of the tenets of TKD is that of continuous improvement and development, and I would think that weapons ought to be an integral part of the art as a well-rounded and complete martial art. Same goes for basic, easy, early-taught self-defense techniques. This, again, is the perspective (rationalization) of someone who is just beginning, learning, and would like to incorporate weapons training with the Hand and Foot elements. There do seem to be some common threads - sword, nunchakus, short and long sticks - which seem to be the most universal. From what I've seen in the movies, we should be taught how to use automatic weapons in both hands simultaneously as well. (joke!) OK, flame away. :-) // mds ------------------------------ From: "Meghan Gardner" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:55:13 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: knives <> This is precisely why I stay away from "tactical knives". I carry a very cheap folder that is used for opening boxes and packaging, cutting chord, etc. Cheap, because I carry a knife *everywhere* and over the years have lost too many to bother with expensive models. People might comment on carrying the best because your life might depend on it... my view is that I'd rather make sure I have a cheap one with me than go without because I just lost my $50 Spyderco last week. Also, if I have to use a knife in my defense, it will be one, maybe two techniques and then I'm running. I'm not hanging out to exchange slices... my goal is to disable them enough so that I can turn my back and run. And my knife will NEVER EVER be in use against another person unless I am certain that my life is in danger. Meghan Gardner Director Guard Up, Inc. www.guardup.com Burlington, MA USA "Always carry love in your heart, and a knife in your pocket." me ------------------------------ From: "Melissa Lambton" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:10:55 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: General Choi's ITF TKD Encyclopedia Dear List, Does anyone have a copy of the ITF Taekwondo Condensed Encyclopedia that they no longer use or refer to? If so, please let me know. I would love to have a copy but it so so expensive to buy one brand new. Taekwon, Melissa ------------------------------ From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:44:23 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Unknown Hyungs Hi All, Can anyone tell me about the following hyungs: Jhinthe Sang duk kwal Dae ji hul Lohaji Wan shoo They are taught by Tiger Gym TSD in the UK. Regards Ken Tang Soo!! ------------------------------ From: "Dshawk" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:43:28 -0700 Subject: Re: the_dojang: looking for hard back Muye Dobo Tongji <>>> $18.95 at Turtle. Do a search on their site for - Muye Dobo Tongji. http://www.turtlepress.com $19.96 at Amazon. http://www.amazon.com $14.97 new at http://www.addall.com/ Same as above do a search on their site for - Muye Dobo Tongji. Just compare the price on shipping. :-) Respectfully, Dan ------------------------------ From: FGS & KVF Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:54:10 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: knee problems with certain exercises > Bruce stated: > You also asked about "bunny hops" and I will throw in "duck walks" as well. > The knees are designed to work like a hinge and actually have quite a range > of motion-- perhaps as much as 120 degrees in some people. Flexing the knee > past the 90 degree point begins to create pressures to the knee hinge that, > once again, the joint was not designed to take. With younger practitioners > such as a teenage population where complete calcification of the bones is > still in process you can probably get away with it. However, as we get > older, the joints (like people) become more firmly established in their > ways. Asking a student to swat down and then walk or jump in that position > is a recipe for knee problems. I would definitely have to agree here. The stress on adult menisci is incredible with deep knee bends, past 90 degrees, and frog jumps or bunny hops, or duck walking. Children tend to avoid meniscus tears b/c of higher elasticity in the cartilage, but can fracture end plates with the deep frog jumps. Adults should avoid squat positions for any activity deeper than 90 degrees, esp if increasing the force by weights or jumping. Otherwise, they are just asking for a meniscus tear. Spunky ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:20:09 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #453 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.