From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #462 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 4 Aug 2001 Vol 08 : Num 462 In this issue: the_dojang: Teachers the_dojang: Re: Education Clarification the_dojang: Just curious=balanced lives the_dojang: Martial art books, and movies the_dojang: Trimed Tobohk the_dojang: Copyright the_dojang: Copyrighting Forms the_dojang: pics the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:16:16 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Teachers Michael writes: > I've been teaching > in the public school system here in Florida for 15 years now,, during that > time I've also been coaching football, wrestling, weightlifting, and > Hapkido,, I usually put about 10 to 12 hours a day. Hello Michael. I was not going to add more to this thread, but you ARE doing more than I am, and that needs to be recognized. Congratulations! As far as volunteering. I don't like to boast, but I think having received public commendations from Canada's Prime Minister, several US Congressmen, Mayors of several cities in the US and Canada, and from the citizens of the city I live in, indicates that I pull my weight in that area. Regarding the problems with basic skills University Freshmen appear to have. Beside reading/hearing about these problems in the news, I took that directly from my personal observations while attending a Michigan University (where I graduated in '96), and from working closely with the thousands of students I have dealt with during the more than thirty-five years of teaching martial arts. Still, regardless of where my travels take me in North-America, I continue to run into young folks who have these nagging problems. BTW, at sixty one years old, I still put in the same hours as you do. Keeps me young, and I can't sleep anyways:) Seriously, keep up the good work Michael, our young folks need the help. Rudy ------------------------------ From: "Grant D. Watson" Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Education Clarification > By the way, > every state has tests that > high school students must pass before they can > graduate,, they are called > the HSCT and they are loaded with math and english, I just graduated in the state of Oregon this past June, and I cannot remember taking any such test. We do have standardized tests, and completion of those tests and work samples lead to a certificate called the Certificate of Initial Mastery (CIM) with a CAM being implimented, but neither is yet required for graduation. The CIM will be required in _some_ places in a few years. Just thought I'd clarify. ===== Grant D. Watson, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Just curious=balanced lives Preface: No hidden meanings or negative connotations emanate from this query: Just curious. How many of you martial arts experts or teachers have other hobbies or interests outside of your martial arts training ? For example, do you fish, camp, ski, practice law or other profession, work on and ride older antique cars, travel to interesting places ? At what point in your lives did your martial arts training become your sole primary creative or other outlet, or livelyhood. What percentage of your students who train under you consider martial arts training a full time endeavor ? A leisure activity ? A sampling of an interest similar to dance lessons ? Does your balance in life allow you to impart lessons learned to students or others ? Or are your lives solely revolved around your first love, e.g., martial arts. Is your persona and life personified by your martial arts endeavors. Or, can you separate your martial arts training from other aspects of your life ? If the latter, how do you recharge your batteries, get away from your love affair with the martial arts, then subsequently return with a renewed sense of training ? Have you given up other aspects of your life, ended relationships (personal or business) to focus solely on martial arts training and teaching ? I neither cast aspersions nor slam your selected interests. Just curious on how your training levels remain so high all the time, if so. Thanks. Off to Asia for one week. Work related. I will enjoy reading your responses if so inclined. Either private or on this forum. Digressing. Interesting thread on defending yourselves in a sudden situation in a bad neighborhood. How many experts here actually were involved in bar room brawls, having 2 or 3 beefed up guys attack you and family members, or having raged drivers start problems. Did you analyze your subsequent reactions ? Did you find that your Hyungs were pivotal and helpful in having you emerge from the situation unscathed ? If you did have those experiences, do you slant your curriculum to teach students how to defend themselves in the street, or is your emphasis on traditional aspects of martial arts--or a combination of both ? Many thanks. McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: SungPaeKi@aol.com Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 10:56:44 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Martial art books, and movies I just put together a little store. It's still under construction but it is pretty close to complete. It has many movies, and books that I think all martial artist's should obtain. Please go check it out and tell me what you think. http://www.vstore.com/vstorestuff/joshsmartialarts Joshua Cather 2nd Dan Tae kwon do 1st Dan Hapkido ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do" Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:00:52 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Trimed Tobohk The first time I ever saw a striped TKD uniform was in a Castello ( a NY company that produced fencing gear and uniforms ) catalog around 1972. J. R. West. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------ From GM Lee, Kang Uk's book on TSD Page 16 Picture of Yong San Gym appears to be 60% white tobohk with white Dee and a few members in "street" clothes... On the opposite page 17 is a picture of GM Lee and Korean Ambasidor to Malaysia. GM Lee and the Kodanja next to him have trimed tobohk and the picture is dated 1973 .... I'd say GM West is dead on. In my study of old TSD pictures I've noticed that patches are also devoid before 1970 (to my knowledge). I'd say 5 color gup belt systems, patches, and different uniforms for dans are some results of teaching the arts to the american ego :-) Now I have seen some circa 70's pictures of TSD with the Kodanja in Black Tops with White Pants. Can any of the "gray-beards" confirm or explain this. Was that the uniform to denote "Master Instructor?" Regards, Charles R. Moja Kwan Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do" Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:26:10 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Copyright Ahhhh! Finally, the real reason for copyrighting, IMVHO. Copyrights make it more difficult for instructors to leave the organization and still maintain their school. Songham folks, I don't mean this adversely, its just business. Danny Dunn > And FWIW, I understand that ATA has successfully defended its copyright against people who left the organization, changed a move or two and continued to teach the forms.< Yikes. That's a scary thought. I can imagine someone who trained in the ATA for 10 years, then had some misgivings about the organization, and the kind of dillema that would leave him/her in. That person would be faced with 3 options: 1) Never leave ATA, shut up and deal with it 2) Leave, but Never teach again (maybe learn a new style and forget the last 10 years?) 3) Invent his/her own forms that have absolutely no similarity to the only martial arts techniques he/she has ever learned That all sounds like a Tae Kwon Do version of issuing cynaide capsules to it's high-ranking members. Doesn't sound like a very enviable position. I'm glad I'm Tang Soo Do. Greg "I'm all for Open Source" Giddins - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For full disclosure Danny, Can you tell us if WTSDA or GM Shin, Jae Chul has a copyright for the Sae Kye Hyungs which BTW were available for sale to instructors only on video in the 1980s and in Shin's second book, which he is selling to non-WTSDA members (for a slightly higher fee)? Can anyone tell us if Chun Kuk Do has it's own forms or are they still using the MDK hyungs (they where in the 80's I believe)? If Chun Kuk Do has it's own forms are they copyright material? BTW FWIW I believe Great Grandmaster Hwang Kee sued over the use of TSDMDK Lost to GM Lee, Kang Uk and ITFMDK Won vs. GM Shin, Jae Chul - I do know that none of the WTSDA printed materials logos, patches or certificates say MDK on them.... From the org name he either didn't sue GM Kim, Jae Joon or lost WMDKTSD. Can you confirm or refute that Mac? Gregg Option 3a Do like the rappers do these days and FWIW the ITF Masters did when they created the ITF Gup Hyung (IMVHO) and "sample" the songham forms into "new" forms. One could keep the progression of new techniques and difficulty, and use all the same motions learned to create various forms.... For example Jhoon Rhee's "Might for Right" Martial Ballet contains Center Knife Hand Reverse Punch Front, Round and Side Kick Inside sudo Multidirection Sudo (Like Ro Hai but standing on both feet) But in a new arrangement and with timing dependent on music...innovative but not totally new :-) Train with Jung Do in your hearts And a tactical folder on your belt, Charles R. Moja Kwan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:40:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Copyrighting Forms <> Said like a true computer geek! ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:34:19 PDT Subject: the_dojang: pics Had to look for trimmed uniforms. In Hwang Kee's TSD/SBD volume 1, a picture from 1945 has all students in a solid white uniform. In a picture from 1964 everyone has on a trimmed uniform. In his book History of Moo Duk Kwan a picture from the Korean war era, when the MDK moved south from Seoul, shows the students in white doboks. A 1957 pic shows some students in solid white and some in trimmed doboks. In a 1958 pic all are in trimmed doboks. Seems that, at least for the MDK, the move to trimmed uniforms was mid-50s. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:38:52 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #462 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.