From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #467 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 7 Aug 2001 Vol 08 : Num 467 In this issue: the_dojang: Tournaments the_dojang: RE: Tournaments the_dojang: Re: Tournaments the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #466 the_dojang: RE: Tournaments the_dojang: Let me do it on My schedule the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #464 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:41:38 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Tournaments Rick writes: > I have made it clear to all tonight that if they cannot commit a day to a > tournament to support their black belts, we don't need to support their > tournament careers. Hello Rick: I am with you all the way on this. I had also noticed this trend, and I feel that much of the "learning experience" is lost with this sort of attitude. Like you, I take students to tournaments to learn about: losing gracefully, winning with humility, sportsmanship, compassion, skill development, team work, and a myriad of other experiences not easily duplicated in the Dojang. Granted, there are many undesireable traits to be seen in tournaments; however, I view these too as learning experiences of "what NOT to do". I recently told one of my most accomplished young Black Belts to leave his belt and uniform at the school and take a hike. The lad had so gotten into winning tournaments, that his attitude was no longer acceptable as a Black Belt role model. I gave him the opportunity to return in three months, with the understanding that his attitude HAS to change. I do not expect the lad to swallow his pride, and I am very sad it had to be done to prevent my other young students from following the lead of this very successful competitor. In my view had no choice. I have gone one step further in my dealings with attitudes at tournaments. I no longer host "open" tournaments, and neither will I attend any that are inconsistent with martial art attitude. I found that the lack of sportsmanship at all levels was so poor that it was no longer fun. I now allow registration for only those schools that have continued to conduct themselves in a manner consistent with behavior expected from martial artists. I haved no room for those who compete for the winning at any cost. The upshot of this drastic move is that my tournament was a very small tournament the first year I implemented the condition. Now two years have past, attendance is dramatically on the rise. It seems many students and school owners who had quit tournaments once again enjoy the competition. Best wishes in upholding your standards. Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:07:06 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Tournaments Rick wrote, "I have made it clear to all tonight that if they cannot commit a day to a tournament to support their black belts, we don't need to support their tournament careers." Well, I dunno man. That seems like kind of a harsh attitude. These students support you throughout the rest of the year by showing up to class, putting forth effort, and paying their monthly fees. I wouldn't make that kind of ultimatum just because people don't want to stick around til all hours just to watch the Black Belts fight. Now, I'm one of those that used to stick around until the bitter end in order to watch my instructors and give them moral support. But at the same time I don't fault those that are tired and want to go home. This is especially true of the lower belts whose divisions usually finish up first, and may have to sit around for five or six hours to wait for the Black Belts to start fighting. Also, a lot of younger students are there with their parents, and they pretty much have to head out when their parents' attention spans hit the wall. It's rare to find a karate tournament that is run smoothly. They hardly ever start on time, and many of them go on into the wee hours because of lack of organization by the promoters. Combine this with amatuer judging and refereeing, and it's not surprising that people want to get the hell out of Dodge once their competition is finished. "Hurry up and wait" seems to be the order of the day at 99% of the open tournaments out there. You get there at 8:00 am because the thing starts at 9:00, but then it doesn't get rolling until almost 10:00. Also, keep this in mind. If they did both the BB forms and sparring at the beginning of the tournament...you'd see the same behavior from 90% of the BB's. Show up to compete, and then go home to mow the lawn. Tournaments have the BB forms first in order to get the BB's to show up on time in the morning. Then they're "forced" to stick around and help ref the color belt divisions because the BB fighting divisions are done at the very end. Craig "I stuck around the Black Belt finals, and was late for church" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:11:48 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Tournaments In a message dated 8/7/2001 7:50:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: <> Wow, you hit the nail on the head with this comment. I know I have always wondered why we don't value our Black Belts more. Must be one of the reasons that karate tournaments have never caught on with the public (I said ONE of the reasons ... not THEE reason) ... we don't hold much respect for our own best formist or fighters. And like you said ... they devoted the whole day to everyone else ... then everyone else just leaves when it is their turn. Have taken your statement and sent it to alot of my martial art friends of many styles to see what they think ... thank you for bringing this up ... that was an important observation and one that many of us see continously ... but have never really commented on ... just shoved it to one side and let it be. Seems we shouldn't let it be ... something should be said. Tournaments maybe need to be run differently ? Black Belts first and everyone else last ? Then maybe everyone else will come and support the Black Belts finally ? There is a tournament in California ... not a TKD one ... but an open tournament that does their tournament like this. One whole day is for Black Belts only ... and then the next day is for colored belts. And believe me ... that Black Belt day is a packed day. I love going and watching people of various styles compete there. Illona ------------------------------ From: hogwldfltr@cs.com Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 14:28:56 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #466 >From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:50:48 -0400 >Subject: the_dojang: Lives other than > >Ken, >I am with you buddy, I don't consider myself a fulltime do nothing but >Hapkido person either,, my family is ALWAYS first, followed by my job, >and then the martial arts among other activities. Funny but I have the same considerations. Without getting into too much gory detail most of my activities support my family. These include my employment, church and choir, participation in Alanon and RCA, Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do (which my 15 y/o son and I do together; it helps us stay close) and then there are involvement with various kids activities including my daughter's soccer teams and boyscouts. There are additional health programs like running, swimming and soccer which I indulge in liberally and use to keep myself healthy at 49 y/o. I guess my motorcycle interests are pretty much for me alone. Much of what I do supports my family however. There is a new past time on the horizon which I began folloing my 49th birthday in June. It too could arguably be listed as either selfish or in support of my family. That past time is golf. - -Lee Tucson ------------------------------ From: "phil" Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:48:55 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Tournaments Rick Foley, You are not alone. I too have competed and judged and refereed and cleaned up my fair share of tournaments. Personally I dont care if I never go to another tournament the rest of my life. But I have students to consider, and some wish to compete, so I do it for them. It is sad that the ones that really make the tournament successful are the ones that get dumped on (the VOLUNTEER black belts) No wait we do get a sandwich and a t-shirt. As far as the community connection. Well thats almost gone from tournaments, at least in the central Fl. area. But the community and the family is strong in the school as I would suspect it is for you. It will be interesting to see what others post on this matter. Phil Peplinski "As an instructor, whats important is not the number of students you have, but the number of lives that you've touched." ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:14:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Let me do it on My schedule Rick, I think this is a very common problem. I personally always wanted to stay to see the final match, way back when I was a color belt in the early 1970's. But now, with more kids in particular, parents tend to view tournaments as more like a ball tournament. Need to be there for Johnny and Janie's match on time, but lets get something else in at least in the afternoon if not before lunch. I think its a product of our fast paced society, balancing the needs and wants of the family and the entertain "ME" focus of our society. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> Rick Foley ------------------------------ From: Clothahump Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:25:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #464 > > From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand > Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 11:06:41 +0200 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Copy-rights > > ...snip... > I just couldn't help myself - even though this is getting really off topic, > but here goes: > a cheaper way is to put your material in a sealed envelope and mail it to > yourself. Assuring that the postage date is visible. > This will not make the world aware of it, but it will hold as evidence in a > trial and only costs a stamp. Actually, it won't. There is case law on copyright violation in the USA where people did exactly that, and the courts ruled that it was insufficient to prove the copyright. And I think we have beaten the copyright thing to death. We do it about once a year, so let's call it quits until 2002, folks, okay? :-) ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:43:00 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #467 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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