From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #473 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 10 Aug 2001 Vol 08 : Num 473 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: stripped of rank/uniform the_dojang: Re: change of website address the_dojang: Re: Curriculum Management... the_dojang: Re: interdojang competitions the_dojang: Re: ATA Way the_dojang: Re: Mass Production the_dojang: block heads :) the_dojang: Hyungs the_dojang: try #2 for Carsten the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. 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To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:28:07 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: stripped of rank/uniform In a message dated 8/9/2001 9:13:46 AM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << How can you take a person's belt that they paid for and a uniform they paid for ... away from them ? >> i know some instructors give their newly promoted bb's a uniform and embroidered belt when they promote. perhaps this is the situation and he considered it school property?? but i know if i went out and bought an adidas gm and was stripped of rank and asked to turn in my uniform, i'd be walking anyway. no matter the art, uniforms can get expensive beyond the student starter uniform. melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com Proud Sponsor of the 10th Annual 2001 US Open Taekwondo Championships ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:55:39 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: change of website address anthony, thanks for the update. the site is very informational. i plan to continue studying on the side and hope to find a master to learn from locally (we just moved to columbia, mo) but chances are slim here. looks like i'll just keep up the basics of haidong gumdo for myself and start teaching tkd again. melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com Proud Sponsor of the 10th Annual 2001 US Open Taekwondo Championships ------------------------------ From: Richard Zaruba Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:57:51 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Curriculum Management... > My questions to the DD are: > 1) Does the "Block" method make sense to you? > 2) How can a "traditionalist" like myself reconcile it and make it work for > the students? > 3) How do you "grow" a school? > 4) Does it seem wise to have more than 10 students to an instructor at any > time during class? > 5) Other thoughts/comments on the situation/idea? 1) It makes sense to teach this way only when teaching material That is fairly independent of previous material. This is a common method used to teach general classes in universities and soldiers in the military basic and duty specific tasks but IMHO it is not appropriate for most martial arts instruction. I personally break down my class by ability groups to teach them. 2) I'm a traditionalist and I couldn't teach my students effectively this way past basics. I use a method similar to the block method to review the white belt foundation material but nothing higher. I have found that it is important for me to work with according to their own progress and capability as individuals. Everyone progresses at there own pace not one set by the group as in the block instruction method. 3) Develop a "leadership" team within your dojang (the iManual by Ron Sell is an excellent way to start). The key to making a leadership team work is spending adequate time working with them on teaching and reviewing the material and you want it too be instructed. I hold workshops for the "leadership" team where we review material for one rank and how it is too be taught. They attend workshops up to their present level. Gradual development is the key. When a person first joins the leadership team they simply act as role models to follow, then they begin to lead warm-up, then they begin to work with students after they have been taught the material, only in the end do they actually begin to teach any material. Students can become members only after they have been with me a year and are at red belt. 4) I try to keep a 5 to 1 ratio or less for each instructor or leadership team member. The "leadership" team must be volunteer and must be given additional instruction in both teaching methods and the curriculum material for it to work. While this sounds like a lot of work and in the beginning it is, it pays for itself once implemented. A volunteer basis installs a sense of responsibility into the team, it also assures that members desire to teach at some level to begin with. The leadership team does not replace the instructor, it frees him up to help more students. I have found that my students are making better progress because I have time to actually correct individual problems with techniques and material as opposed to trying to lead the entire group. Hope this helps. Sincerely, Richard Zaruba _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba Department of Anatomy & Cell Biology University of North Dakota School of Medicine 501 North Columbia Road P.O. Box 9037 Grand Forks, ND 58202-9037 zaruba@medicine.nodak.edu 701.777.3952 office 701.777.2576 lab 701.777.2477 fax ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:40:42 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: interdojang competitions In a message dated 8/10/2001 7:09:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << After everyone has completed their material, the judges and I then tally up the scores and determine the "winners." So even we are unaware of who is in the lead until the end. Holding off the calculation of scores helps keep the judges neutral too because they are usually clueless as to who is in the lead until they calculate the scores at the end. >> I think you are talking about forms competition because in fighting how can they not know who won or lost ? Sorry for the questions, Christa, the answer to the forms one is one I will use to keep them around ... but am puzzled how to keep the fighters here, also. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:52:04 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: ATA Way In a message dated 8/10/2001 7:09:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The reasoning I have been given for this new method so far has seemed rather McDojang-ish. They say it is the only way to support a large school (30-50 students) with just a single instructor. My questions to the DD are: 1) Does the "Block" method make sense to you? 2) How can a "traditionalist" like myself reconcile it and make it work for the students? 3) How do you "grow" a school? 4) Does it seem wise to have more than 10 students to an instructor at any time during class? 5) Other thoughts/comments on the situation/idea? >> I have had larger classes than that with only me as the instructor and I don't have a problem teaching them. I break them up in either groups or partners and we work on kicks, basics, or self defense technique one at a time, with me going around and critiquing each group/partner ... then on to the next kick/basic/self defense technique. And each belt level has their own range of techniques they need to learn. If they are in an All Ranks class (I have a couple of these a week) .. they may learn other things from their belt level ... but they would never be tested on it nor expected to learn it well at the level they are at. One step at a time ... like climbing a ladder ... and each person learns at their own speed. Don't hold back the quick learners and don't push the slow learners to keep up with the fast ones. Always give them a challenge ... but the way ATA has it plotted out now sounds totally confusing to me. But that is me. If it remains like that ... what are you, the school owner/teacher going to do? Illona ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:23:08 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Mass Production Dear Brian: "...My questions to the DD are: 1) Does the "Block" method make sense to you? 2) How can a "traditionalist" like myself reconcile it and make it work for the students? 3) How do you "grow" a school? 4) Does it seem wise to have more than 10 students to an instructor at any time during class? 5) Other thoughts/comments on the situation/idea?...." There was a time in US history when folks were educated in a one-room school house, reading and writing were taught at home using the family bible and a person could effectively take the role of being a frontier doctor simply by assuming the title. The needs and expectations of the culture changed and hopefully our educational system will do the same. The situation you have identified seems like a step backwards. I'll go out on a limb and gues that the ATA powers-that-be don't accept a group test fee, or group admission fee to tournaments, do they? Unless I miss my guess people are tested and admitted on an individual basis. I will also guess that you don't accept a group tuition but probably collect individual tuitions or memberships for each student, yes? Sounds to me as though the situation you describe is the equivelent of what private daycare providers used to do when they sat the kids down in front of the TV with a plate of cookies and a glass of milk. I have heard instructors defend this approach by saying that the student learns more and faster from their peers, that people find learning more sophisticated material more challenging and so retention improves, and that students naturally rise or fall to their own level of performance and ability. Perhaps there is some value to these observations but I will bet they were made by a teacher who was individually engaged with their pupil such that they could identify such trends. My personal opinion is that if an agency likes moving individuals in a herd they should probably shift to running a sheep ranch or a dairy farm. Most sports I am familiar with don't expect everyone to do everything the same and at the same time with the same level of profficiency. Thats why there are coaches. The traditional MA also carry an over-lay of intellectual, emotional and spiritual development that cannot be attended to by punching out students like so many bottle caps. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:59:23 PDT Subject: the_dojang: block heads :) > 1) Does the "Block" method make sense to you? > 2) How can a "traditionalist" like myself reconcile it and make it work for > the students? > 3) How do you "grow" a school? > 4) Does it seem wise to have more than 10 students to an instructor at any > time during class? > 5) Other thoughts/comments on the situation/idea? I dare say that many (most?) of those that started learning 'krotty' in the 70s or before learned via this block method. Does that make it right? No. Is it traditional? Probably, but not all traditions are necessarily good. But it worked for me and those around me. Or at least I think it did... :) 10 students per instructor? I've seldom seen a ratio that low, more like 20, 30 or 40 to one. But a lower ratio should be better for the student as well as the instructor. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Hyungs Danny, When I get my hands on the money I had planned to buy Volume IV of GM Shin's book anyway. I'm guessing Advanced forms through Kong Sang Koon, or is it inclusive....Seisan(Hangetsu), Wan Shu (Empi/Yubi), Jion, and Oh Sip Sa Bo (GoJuShiHo)....and of course the elusive So Rim Jang Kwon (So Lim Chang Chuan), and Tae Kyuk Kwan (Taijiquan)? I'm curious if you or anyone on list has compared that book to GM Kim, C.S.'s "Authentic TSD" book? Or the advanced forms in GM Lee, K.U.'s book? As I have left WTSDA it's good to know by doing the KiCho (Taikyuku) Hyungs I shouldn't be sued .... Thank you to Master Clay for the clarification on Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan being copyright protected. Therefore MDK TSD and MDK TKD are public domain terms. Of course if one practices Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do copyrights are the least of your worries :-) Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:32:36 PDT Subject: the_dojang: try #2 for Carsten Try #2... Ray ------------------------------------------- Carsten wrote on July 16: > the Hwarang Do videos should be out and people can see for themselves if > it's the same thing if they care. Great! Sounds like an excellent challenge. But (I just checked out www.hwarangdo.com) 23 videos at $50 a each. Lets see, 23 times 5 times 10 is !#$!?! :) Can you narrow it down just a wee bit? Recommend two or three videos in the set where you think I'll see a significant difference in physical technique between GM Lee's HwaRangDo and Hapkido and I'll spend my $$ in hopes of finally settling this (at least in my mind). ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:28:03 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #473 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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