From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #474 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 10 Aug 2001 Vol 08 : Num 474 In this issue: the_dojang: Branded the_dojang: University of Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign ? the_dojang: Taking - Giving - Gis and Belts the_dojang: class size the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #472 the_dojang: the_dojang: Home Study TKD?! the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:59:29 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Branded "BRANDED!!!...scorned as the one who ran, what do you do when you're BRANDED, and you know you're a man." Ok, sorry...I couldn't resist. All this talk of playing repo man with the belts and the uniforms reminded me of that old TV show 'Branded' with Chuck Conners. Remember how they stripped him of his stripes and bars, and then made him do the walk of shame out of the fort as all the soldiers turned their backs to him? Aaahhhhh...classic television. On a serious note (for a change), I'm definitely on the fence with this belt issue (on the fence...yet another change). A part of me understands that the belt symbolizes a certain stage in the individual martial artist's development, and that many arts (more accurately...many teachers) expect that students at this stage conform to a "higher" moral/ethical standard in order to honor that particular art's path. As such, those that stray from, or dishonor that path face the consequences of not being allowed to adorn themselves with the symbol in question. At least that's what the little Karate Angel sitting on my right shoulder tells me. Meanwhile, the Ugly American Devil sitting on my left shoulder is screaming something about, "it's just a piece of cloth", and urging me to stop making "much ado about nothing" (I think he stole that line from somewhere). So, while I find it interesting (and am somewhat understanding) that some of the teachers here would take such measures...it's not something that I would necessarily do myself. In the end, an individual's bad behavior is merely a reflection of what's going on inside THAT person. It can no more be a bad reflection on the martial art that they practice, any more than it could be a reflection of the books that they read, or the movies that they watch. I can understand a teacher not wanting to be associated any longer with a particular individual, and thus demanding the return of any items that may display the names of teachers, schools, and oranizations. Perhaps the solution to that particular dilemma lies in reverting to our much "simpler" past which was devoid of patches, embroidered belts, and gis that look they've been endorsed by NASCAR. Heck, I'll do you one better. Let's take those belts and throw them in the trash (as a deluge of rotten fruit comes flying my way). Who's with me on that one? Really, if the trappings are THAT much of a distraction then just get rid of the damned trappings. Throw away the belts...and the art remains the same. THE ART IS STILL THERE!!! The only difference is that now the pretenders don't have a mystical totem to hide behind. You either have knowledge that is worthy of being passed on (as evidenced by the value of your teaching, and not by the color of your belt), or you do not. You either have ABILITY that is evidenced by your PERFORMANCE (and not by the color of your belt), or you do not. Think how wonderful that would be. I'll use the NFL as an analogy. When players are no longer able to perform they either retire from the game, OR they stay on as coaches, scouts, front office employees, or commentators. They still play a valuable role in the game because of their KNOWLEDGE. Now imagine the NFL being run like a typical martial arts organization with it's insane caste system of belts, titles, and ranks. Here's Jim Brown showing up for practice with the Cleveland Browns. His gut stretching the front of his jersey, while his flabby backside stretches his XXL pants. He wears the same helmet and padding as the younger players, although he'll put them to little use during this season and countless others to follow. The young players run through their drills and scrimmages at 100% while Jim stands at the side offering both insult and encouragement in the same breath. Of course, Jim doesn't have to practice like the others. He's the master of running backs. Every once in a while, Jim will trod to the front in order to show the young bucks how it's really done. They hand Jim the ball so that he can run over one of the young players in a tackling drill. Amazingly, Jim never gets tackled or knocked to the ground. Jim's skill is of such a high level that he makes it seem as if the young player were playing in slow-motion. Why, if you didn't know better you'd think that the young player actually LET Jim run over him. Of course, the young players never can seem to emulate Jim's skill, nor can Jim teach the young bucks how it's done. No, they just have to resort to their crude and barbaric physical drills in order to develop, while Jim reigns as master of the game without breaking a sweat. You see...you don't develop Jim's abilities until after 20 or 30 years in the game. That's the way it is...that's the way it always will be. Of course, game day comes around and Jim takes the field with his tribe of young warriors. Jim doesn't play during the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th quarters. No, the respected master puts on a football demo during the halftime intermission. Jim takes the field with other legends like Joe Namath, Frank Gifford, and Roger Staubach. They amaze the crowd with daring feats such as throwing a football and knocking an apple out of a young player's mouth. They line up in formation and run plays against phantom defenders. For the finale, they knock a few of the younger players on their butts...again their amazing skills make it seem as if the younger ones just fell down on their own. The younger ones can only look on with amazement, and hope that someday they'll attain the same mastery of the "game". This is REAL football my friends. Well, was I too subtle? Now before people go off of the deep end...my analogy was NOT about AGE...it was about RANK. Our man Jim was allowed to hang around and lord over the game NOT because of his ability, NOT because of his coaching, and NOT because of his ability to perform. Jim was able to play the part of lord, master, and keeper because of the STATUS that he held within the ranks. Now, who's to blame? Jim obviously takes advantage of the young players who are playing along in the hopes that the football gods will smile upon them and bestow them with the same awesome ability (of course, the smarter ones are on to the con and look forward to spending their twilight years as a gridiron legend). The young players are also to blame. They should either demand that Jim show them his secrets, or knock him on his backside at the first available opportunity. Either way...the truth will be revealed, yes? I am telling you right here and now that belt systems help to enable this same type of insane behavior. We shouldn't concern ourselves with the color of the primitive totems that we wear around our waists like so many chicken bones dangling from the necklace of a voodo priest. We should concern ourselves with performance...performance as coaches, performance as leaders, and performance as players. After all, isn't the belt supposed to be an indicator of perfomance? Sadly, I see less and less of that each day. Belts are a symptom of a disease...and performance is the cure. If we would set performance as the north star for which to shoot, I think we'd find ourselves taking back fewer of these belts. Performance sets a stage upon which humans can develop and shine...belts set a stage upon which we continue to sink into the trap of stagnation and entitlement. Choose...or has someone already made up your mind for you? Craig "15 years in...and still a white belt" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:06:38 PDT Subject: the_dojang: University of Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign ? Do we still have subscribers from one of the MA clubs at the U of I at Champaign-Urbana? Looking for a contact/connection to the TSD Club at the university. Can anyone help? Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:55:07 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Taking - Giving - Gis and Belts All, Forget the belts, forget the gis; focus on the people. If you promote a person to BB that turns out to be rotten - reevaluate yourself, not their clothing. Getting in the WAY, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:09:56 EDT Subject: the_dojang: class size Ray Terry wrote: << 10 students per instructor? I've seldom seen a ratio that low, more like 20, 30 or 40 to one. But a lower ratio should be better for the student as well as the instructor. Ray Terry >> When I had a small school I advertised "low student to teacher ratio". Now that I have a fairly large school and classes with 20 students at one time i advertise "high energy, very exciting classes". Both systems work, the block method and rank specific method, as long as the school has a good instructor. I do think the ATA is making a big mistake in it's new policy. I think they are taking it too far the other way and allowing cracks to appear in the students training. For example I recently had a student from an ATA school, camo (green) belt, and she did not know what a round house kick was.......go figure. gary pieratt republicof texas ------------------------------ From: "Grant D. Watson" Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #472 > During the time prior to 1st dan, > my candidates must come > into the outer office and recognize their own belt > from the others hanging > on the wall, and when asked what they are holding, > the reply is "it is Mr. > West's belt with my name on it". Please don't take this personally, and I understand that this is a respect issue, but doesn't this seem a bit tacky? They did earn the belt, after all. > I have had a pair of students > go up the street and > open a short lived school in competition with me > (which is why everyone > signs a non-compete agreement now) What is your reasoning behind such an agreement? I respect that you have far more experience with such things than I do, but this seems so... severe a remedy. ===== Grant D. Watson, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:56:21 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Dakin writes: >How can anyone say they are not selling a belt? You buy it for about $5 (more >if it is embroidered). If you charge a testing fee, or any fee for that >matter, you are selling a belt, and probably a certificate along with it. When >I kick people out (I do it too), they keep the belt and anything they have. >What does it matter? While they were my students they earned them. You can't >take away what they have learned, and that's the important stuff. Hello Dakin: To achieve the rank of Black Belt, I run four tests that take an entire evening to complete. One is on techniques, next is Hyung, and another is on weapons. The fourth one is a challenge course that takes an entire weekend. After completing these tests, there is a banquest where they must perform a demo. Only after all this is completed satisfactorily do I award the rank. Some schools include testing fees in their training fees, and their charges are anywhere from $80.00 to $125.00 per month for training twice per week. Some classes are as short as 45 minutes. What I am trying to say is this. Somewhere along the line people PAY for tests, and I think this is not out of line. People should expect to pay for the time they use, whatever is done during this time. When I test people, I sell my time -- not a belt, and when a belt is taken away, the student still has what he paid for -- his knowledge. Like JR, I do not include the belt (which bears our name), but I "loan" this to the student with the understanding that a certain amount of responsibility and ethics are part and parcel of it while they wear it. No one can determine up front how a person will turn out to be, people change. Some of our worst criminals graduated from respected Universities. I'm sure these places of learning wish (just like we do) that they had never set eyes on these folks, but that's life. We do the best we can. Rudy ------------------------------ From: "Grant D. Watson" Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Home Study TKD?! Hello, group. After buying the first two volumes of Hee Il Cho's "The Complete Tae Kwon Do Hyung" elsewhere, I bought the third volume from his organization, and a mini-catalog came with it. A significant section of this flier was devoted to his "home study" TKD course. I have heard good things about some of Master Cho's books and videos, e.g. his breaking video, and I find myself impressed with the books I ordered, but this seems, on the face of it, like a very bad idea. I, however, have not seen the tapes, and do not know the nature of the training involved, or if it is to be supplimented elsewhere. Has anyone here seen these tapes? I'm curious. ===== Grant D. Watson, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:25:06 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #474 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.