From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #481 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 14 Aug 2001 Vol 08 : Num 481 In this issue: the_dojang: RE:Educational stuff the_dojang: RE: Mountain Storm Throw the_dojang: Kano in NA the_dojang: Rotten apples the_dojang: From the Depths of my shallow character the_dojang: Thanks for your insight the_dojang: reminder for AOL 6 users the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:01:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Educational stuff Dear Rudy: "...If the bottom line of this issue has slipped by some readers, I humbly apologize for not making it clearer...." I for one accept your apology---- but only if you agree to apologize for the right thing. I believe that most correctly you need to be apologizing to yourself for bending over backwards to explain a position which apparently a number of individuals are plainly unwilling to entertain. I wouldn't take any time to respond to this at all except to affirm to you that heritage, culture, documented resources and the writings of a number of current authorities all support the idea that participation in martial arts bespeaks involvement in a lifestyle which is greater than the limits of simple commerce or physical activity. I believe that is the crux of your thought, yes? I likewise believe that there are not a few individuals who participate in martial arts on a regular basis who would be more than glad to keep these traditions on a simple athletic footing and avoid the murky conundrums concerning values and accountability. And aren't we all SO surprised to here tales of molested students, drugs, deceit and fraud where the warriors' values are neglected and these arts are reduced to just one more time-structuring option for the entertainment-deprived. Sadly, I must concur with your decision to curtail your responses. Apparently we have both broken a fundamental rule of education. "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It will only frustrate you.---- and, it annoys the pig." Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:10:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Mountain Storm Throw Richard wrote, "Shiro Saigo was noted for using "Yama Arashi" or mountain storm throw. Funny, I do not recall having ever heard that technique being included in Kodokan Judo, but it is taught in Daito Ryu." You're absolutely right about the Mountain Storm throw. A few of the matches were decided by that very same technique. However, it is included as a part of the formal Kodokan system. You can find it under the 'Dai Roku Kyo No Waza'. Can be a very powerful technique. It's not surprising that this technique predates Kodokan Judo within a traditional Japanese Ryu-ha. Kano brought over many techniques from his previous training, as well as borrowing from other sources. For example, the well known 'Kata Guruma' (some people call it Fireman's Carry Throw) was gleaned from an illustrated book on western wrestling. Don't know about Kano bringing in ringers. I know many students followed him into the new Kodokan tradition that had previously trained in the traditional Japanese jujutsu. We don't have exact details as to what really went on in those matches...what's for sure is that Kano's team won the "competition". And yes...Judo has it's problems, particularly in the west. I notch them up to 3 root causes. 1. TOO MUCH emphasis on athletic competition. 2. Lack of a single, unified National Governing Body (today, you can pick from three). 3. Years of corruption within Judo's leadership...particularly under one individual who shall remain nameless. Craig Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Kano in NA By Joseph R. Svinth, 2000. All rights reserved. Although Jigoro Kano's influence on North American judo came mostly through students trained at the Kodokan, he personally visited both the United States and Canada on several occasions. The following is therefore a synopsis of those visits. Kano's first visit to the United States took place during the winter of 1912-1913. While passing through New York City on his way home from the 1912 Olympics, he gave a judo exhibition attended by local sportswriters. Later, the ship Kano was on stopped in Honolulu. While paying his respects to the Japanese consul, Kano met with Shigemi Teshima, who with Naomatsu Kanshige had established a judo club in Honolulu in March 1909. During the 1970s, signs Kano brushed for Teshima still hung with pride in Honolulu's Shunyokan Dojo. Kano's next American visit came in 1920. He reached San Francisco on June 24, 1920, and from there went to New York. Probably he spoke to both reporters and Japanese associations, but so far I have found nothing in print to substantiate this belief. After going to Europe to attend the Olympics, he returned to Japan via the United States. His port of entry was New York, and on December 23, 1920 he demonstrated his art at the New York Athletic Club. The New York Times said afterward that Kano and his partner, Ryoichi Taguchi, 5-dan, "went through a series of offensive and defensive movements . with an agility that drew frequent applause. Mr. Kano defined judo as the study of the maximum efficiency of the mind and body for the purpose of attack and defense." Kano revisited the US in 1932. While his main purpose was to promote Japan's bid for the 1940 Olympics, he also gave lectures. The title of his 1932 speech was probably "The Contribution of Jiudo to Education," as that was the title of his paper subsequently published in the Journal of Health and Physical Education. >From late July until the middle of August Kano was in California, where = he attended the Olympic Games in Los Angeles. Once the Games were over, = though, Kano took his own private tour of the Pacific Coast. His = traveling companions included Ryoichi Taguchi and Eitaro Suzuki. The party reached Vancouver, British Columbia, on August 17, 1932. Among = the people greeting them was Yoshitaka Mori, 1-dan. (Vancouver Dojo = leader Shigetaka Sasaki was in Tokyo at the time, studying for his 3-dan = ranking). The stay in Canada was only overnight, and the following = afternoon Kano spoke to the Japanese Language Schoolteachers' Assembly = of the Northwest in Tacoma. His theme, unsurprisingly, was the role of = judo in education. Consul Kiyoshi Uchiyama also spoke during this = lecture. The gist of his speech was that the Nisei [second-generation = Japanese Americans] needed to learn what Japanese language schools = taught if they were to be able to properly interpret Japan for the = benefit of European Americans. On August 19, Kano gave a similar speech to the Japan Society of = Seattle. This organization had been established in July 1923 and its = mostly European American members included the chairman of the University = of Washington's Asian languages department, a city judge, the city = school superintendent, and the city librarian. Kano told this = distinguished group that the Nisei must live up to high standards and = expectations if they were to fulfill their duties as patriotic American = citizens. "This mighty ocean," said Kano: "is no longer is a dividing gulf. With the developing advancement of the lines of communication, year by year, the blue waters of the Pacific are rapidly becoming transformed into a connecting link that will eventually join us together in our common aim of world friendship and peace." Afterwards Kano showed some judo moves. His helpers included Seattle = Dojo's George Maniwa and Kaimon Kudo. Said the Japanese-American Courier = afterward, "Carefully and with the precision of a slow motion picture, = Mr. Kano illustrated the science of Judo to his audience in such a = manner that it was easy for everyone to understand." Immediately following the demonstration Kano attended a garden party = hosted by Japanese consul Kiyoshi Uchiyama and then a dinner hosted by = the Seattle Yudanshakai (black belt association). One presumes that at = formal dinners such as this, the younger black belts did not engage in = their usual after-dinner game of seeing who could eat the most bowls of rice. On August 20, Kano and Taguchi drove two hundred miles to Portland, = Oregon. After Kano gave some speeches the two men sat for photographs = with local judoka and their fathers. Then they drove back to Seattle. As = Kano had another speech to give at the Nippon Kan (a still-extant = community theater) that night, the speedometer probably eased past = seventy miles per hour as their automobile raced past the stump farms = lining the newly completed highway between Vancouver and Olympia. [FN1] At the Nippon Kan that evening, another Japanese visitor named Kyugoro = Obata joined Kano on the platform. The secretary of Tokyo's = Japanese-American Relations Committee, Obata told the mostly Japanese = audience that education and scholarship would effectuate a better = understanding between the US and Japan. For his part, Kano said that the = Nisei "must first of all be taught to become genuine and good American = citizens. The ideal of world peace and mankind's welfare must always be = kept before them." Finally, said a Seattle community newspaper, "Both = speakers frankly expressed the opinion, the Americans of Japanese = ancestry could only fulfill their proper part in their country's = national life by becoming genuine citizens." On August 21, Kano attended a Seattle judo tournament. "Originally the = event had been scheduled for the Nippon Kan from 3 p.m.," explained the = Japanese-American Courier, "but owing to the big sell-out of tickets = throughout the Northwest, the change [to the larger Chamber of Commerce = auditorium] was necessitated." After watching the matches, Kano = approved some promotions, including a 2-dan ranking for Ken Kuniyuki, a = future leader of Southern California's Nanka Yudanshakai. Finally, = around 11:30 p.m., he and Taguchi boarded a train for San Francisco. From San Francisco, Kano and Taguchi went to Yokohama via Honolulu. = While in Honolulu, Kano took the time to visit the Hongwanji Japanese = High School and pose for a photograph with its judoka. He also awarded = the Hawaii Judo Association, which by then had ten member clubs, with a = certificate of recognition. Dated November 15, 1932, the form was = obviously signed in Tokyo and mailed rather than delivered on the spot. Kano passed through Seattle again in July 1936. During his speech on = July 6, he told his audience that the spirit of judo was not a spirit of = competition but a spirit of cooperation. He added that Japan wanted the = Olympic Games because nations became more sympathetic toward one another = through competing in sport. Said he, "If China understood Japan's = intentions, they would try to cooperate in all matters. China is torn by = internal wars. They misunderstand Japan's real intention." On July 7 Kano boarded a train and headed to British Columbia. Vancouver = Dojo leader Shigetaka Sasaki greeted him at the station in Vancouver, = and then accompanied Kano across Canada to New York City and Berlin. A = photograph of their visit to Lake Louise in Banff can be found in the = University of British Columbia archives and the cover of Glynn Leyshon's Judoka. In New York City on July 16, Kano held a press conference at the Hotel = Astor. After the obligatory luncheon, Kano attended a judo exhibition = given by the Jiu-Jitsu Club located at 114 W. 48th Street. His host was = T. Shozo Kuwashima [FN2] and the Japanese-American Courier reported that = "among the judoists were not a few Japanese and American women who have = taken up the art." On his way back to Japan Kano visited with the Japanese community in Los = Angeles. On October 23 he attended a dinner at the Kawafuku restaurant = in Los Angeles. As the judoka who paid for the dinner included the = professional wrestlers Kaimon Kudo and Shunichi Shikuma, the stories = about Kano withholding promotions from professional wrestlers appear to = owe more to postwar Olympic platitudes than fact. The next two days found Kano watching a judo tournament pitting a = Washington State all-star team against a California all-star team. = Promotions approved as a result of this tournament included a 3-dan = ranking for the future US Judo Federation president Masato Tamura. Kano's last visit to North America came during his return to Japan from = an Olympic meeting in Cairo in 1938. His first stop was in New York = City, and on April 17, Kano and members of the New York Dojo = demonstrated judo for reporters, using some Japanese American black = belts as his models. As usual, Kano accompanied the demonstration with a = speech about how thinking about judo had caused him to create his = theories about maximum efficiency and mutual welfare. When a reporter = asked him how he reconciled the drive to win with the need sometimes to = submit to overwhelming force, he replied, "When yielding is the highest = efficient used of energy, then yielding is judo." After the press conference, Kano went to the airport, where he caught a = United Airlines DC-3 bound for Seattle via Chicago. On the evening of = April 20, Kano ate dinner with members of the Seattle Yudanshakai at = Seattle's Gyokko Ken restaurant. Afterwards the Seattle judo association = held a promotional tournament at Washington Hall. Fife's Ryoichi Iwakiri = received promotion to 3-dan while his fourteen-year old son George = Makoto received promotion to 1-dan. [FN3] While some have claimed these = as Kano's last promotions, other Northwestern players including the = future US Judo Federation president Eiichi Koiwai were promoted during = this tournament, and it seems petty to argue about who stood last in = line. More importantly, Kano visited the Kido Kan Dojo in Vancouver, = British Columbia on April 22 and probably promoted someone there before leaving. As for the impact of these visits on the young men who saw them, sixty = years later Frank Moritsugu recalled Kano's visit to Vancouver for the = Judo Ontario newsletter: [Stephen] Kamino-sensei did a quick phone-around in Kitsilano to get = several of his students out of school that day and into dress clothes to = rush downtown to wait outside the Vancouver dojo with other young judo = people. As we waited, we were instructed in the technique of = sai-kei-rei, an extremely low bow of respect, which we were to do when = the great man arrived. The taxi drew up. Mr. Sasaki got out first, and then came this small man = in a dark suit and coat with a brown hat. He didn't seem impressive at = all until you got a good look at him. Then there he was: Jigoro Kano = himself! Under that hat, he looked just like the man whose portrait adorned every = judo dojo we'd ever visited. And on the barked command from = Kamino-sensei we did our sai-kei-rei, not daring to peek until we straightened up again. A Note on Sources The chief sources for this article were interviews with Nisei judoka = conducted by the author between 1996 and 1998, and microfilmed community = newspapers such as the Great Northern Daily News, Japanese-American = Courier, and North American Times (Seattle) and Japan Times (Tokyo). See also: Kano, Jigoro. "The Contribution of Jiudo to Education," Journal of = Health and Physical Education, 3 (1932), 37-40, 58. - -----. "Jiudo: The Japanese Art of Self Defence," Living Age, 314 = (1922), 724-731. - -----. "Olympic Games and Japan," Dai Nippon, 1936, 197-199. - -----. "Principles of Judo and Their Applications to all Phases of Human = Activity," unpublished lecture given at the Parnassus Society, Athens, = Greece, on June 5, 1934, reprinted as "Principles of Judo" in Budokwai = Quarterly Bulletin, April 1948, 37-42. Kano, Risei. "The Kodokan Judo" (Tokyo: The Kodokan, 1951) Maekawa, Mineo. "Jigoro Kano's Thoughts on Judo, with Special Reference = to the Approach of Judo Thought during His Jujutsu Training Years," = Bulletin of the Association for the Scientific Studies on Judo, Kodokan, = Report V (1978), reprint from http://www.bstkd.com/kano1.htm. - ----- and Hasegawa, Y. "Studies on Jigoro Kano: Significance of His = Ideals on Physical Education and Judo," Bulletin of the Association for = the Scientific Studies on Judo, Kodokan, Report II (1963); reprint from = http://www.bstkd.com/jobo.1.htm. Matsudaira, Tsuneo. "Sports and Physical Training in Modern Japan," = Transactions and Proceedings of the Japan Society, London, 8 (1907/1909), 120. Waterhouse, David, "Kano Jigoro and the Beginnings of the Judo Movement," Toronto, symposium, 1982, 169-178. Acknowledgments People who contributed information or stories included in this article = included Howard Alexander, Richard Bowen, Jerry Dalien, Fujiko Tamura = Gardner, Richard Hayes, Larry Kobayashi, Graham Noble, Teru Okawa, Kenji = Okuda, Jim Onchi, Robert W. Smith, and David Waterhouse. The financial = support of the Japanese American National Museum and the King County = Landmarks and Heritage Program is also gratefully acknowledged. Footnotes FN1. I am well aware that during the 1930s the normal travel time on the = Pacific Highway between Portland and Seattle was around five hours. = Going that speed, however, would have made Kano late to his Seattle = speech. And it is certain that Japanese Americans sometimes exceeded the = posted speed limits. For example, in March 1920 the Seattle Star = reported that a Japanese American named M. Yamato received a $100 fine = for driving 65 miles per hour on the Pacific Highway near Kent, and by = 1932 cars were much more powerful than they had been in 1920. FN2. Remembered today mostly for his book written with A.R. Welch (Judo: Forty-One Lessons in the Modern Science of Jiu-Jitsu, 1938), Kuwashima was born in Kagawa Prefecture in 1893. After studying judo at Tokyo Agricultural College, he emigrated to the United States in 1916. He taught judo in Stockton and other Northern California locations until the mid-1930s, when he got a job teaching judo in New York and New Jersey. Later he moved to Chicago, where he operated a judo club until a skin disease forced his retirement in 1945. Demonstrators shown in British versions of Kuwashima's book included Ted Mossom and Stan Bissdell. FN3. On page 16 of "The History of American Judo," Judo USA, 3:3 (Jul 1977), Dennis Helm of the US Judo Federation historical committee wrote: "Professor [Ryoichi] Iwakiri exhibited such skill that he received his First Dan by Professor Kano at the age of thirteen. At that age, he could defeat everyone in his class. Since his father would not promote him, the promotion came directly from Kano." As Ryoichi Iwakiri did not start judo in the United States until about age eighteen this statement evidently refers to this promotion of Iwakiri's son George Makoto in 1938. That said, I strongly doubt that either Iwakiri ever told anyone that they could defeat everyone in a club whose members included Masato Tamura, George Kawasaki, Sunji Dogen, Jack Ohashi, and all their brothers. ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:09:19 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Rotten apples Dear Mr. Timmerman, Blame would be too strong a word for associating a student's bad behavior and a teacher's responsibility, unless that teacher is teaching a lethal Martial Art, and doing nothing to discover/improve the character of the student. As teachers we have a lot to learn - much of it is about human nature - some of it about Martial Arts. Getting in the WAY, Patrick >I constantly reevaluate myself. It is one of the things martial arts has >taught me. If you mean that the blame for a rotten apple lies with me, I >respectfully decline to accept that. . . . Sincerely, Rudy< _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:12:20 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: From the Depths of my shallow character Dear Mr. Sims, All >I think I am accurate in saying that I hear in Mr. Stovall’s comments the >same sort of superficiality that I have heard Mr. Nabor and Patrick make >for GM Ji, Carsten makes for GM Lee and HWARANGDO, and Dana made for >ranks/belts. I think the concept that MA encompasses much more than the >shallow trappings that have been ascribed to them is something to which we >may want to give more credence.< Mr. Sims; My comments in support of GM Ji have their rationale. What is the rationale for your sniping? You claim a desire to build, but you keep peeing in the mortar. All; The problem I have with the belt boogie people are doing, is that some powers taht be continue to attempt redirection of definition. The various degrees of BB should denote a level of service, knowledge and understanding - - NOT only physical performance. I rather enjoyed Mr Stovall's analogy of MA to Football, but lets extrapolate; If the strapping youth of today were on the sidelines, coaching; or in the locker rooms developing plays and scheduling practice, and the old men were working the field - no amount of beer could keep me interested. Old men coaching & Young men playing - it is harmonious with nature - it makes sense, unless you decide to only value physical performance! If you only value physical performance - No one would coach - we would all be too busy trying to be perfect specimens. The study, knowledge, findings, shortcuts, and methods of each athelete would not survive his career. Kano would never have had ten students to take to the tournament! Even worse, our drive for physical superiority would not allow us to watch football on tv, or drink the beer! No more advertisements of bars filled with young nubile women for old men to lust after . . .This is a fate too horrible to imagine any further!! Patrick With apologies to the ladies - PC left out for comedic effect, and cause I am a Neanderthal _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:17:51 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Thanks for your insight Mr. Doney wrote; >. . . Do you think people log on here and make a list of people they don't want to learn martial arts from? Ever notice that people that start or include the IMHO are almost never humble? Does it seem to you that people who put "my 2 cents" or "my 0.02" really think that they are dealing in a more superior currency? Just some thoughts. Regards, Noel Doney< Did 'ya ever notice that some people's observations are made like they can't see the forest for their colons? Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:03:59 PDT Subject: the_dojang: reminder for AOL 6 users To the AOL 6.0 users. Getting a post through to the list will require you to send your email the following way to get around the bug (feature?) that exists in AOL v6.0. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: From: Migukyong@aol.com How to send non-HTML (plain text) mail for those using AOL 6.0... According to the gurus at AOL the only way to send a plain text email message in 6.0, is to click on the explorer icon (or navigator) enter aolmail.aol.com. It can't be done from the program to date. Hope this helps Ray. Frank ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:35:02 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #481 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.