From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #493 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 22 Aug 2001 Vol 08 : Num 493 In this issue: the_dojang: Training with GM Ji the_dojang: RE: Hapkido vs. Jiu Jitsu the_dojang: Young Masters the_dojang: Memory Lane the_dojang: Hapkido What is it - It is not War and Peace! the_dojang: Re: Hapkido vs Ju-jutsu the_dojang: Oh My Aching Toe the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RDNHJMS@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:54:06 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Training with GM Ji I just returned from training with GM Ji in the Philadelphia area. Had a great time. An interesting experience on Saturday night at a Korean restaurant. GM Ji was in the middle of giving an interview with a Korean newspaper reporter when an old Korean gentleman came into the restaurant. He recognized GM Ji and walked over and grabbed his hand and began talked very affectionately. I couldn't catch but a few words of the conversation, but Tony Pak (Ji's step-son) told me later that this guy had been a student of Ji's over 40 years ago. He began training in Hapkido with him in 1959. Although Ji did not recognize him, the gentlemen certainly had not forgotten his first teacher. I guess it's still a small world after all. V/R, Rick Nabors ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:58:51 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Hapkido vs. Jiu Jitsu Danny wrote, "I was wondering if someone could tell me the main differences between Hapkido and Jiu Jitsu? I've heard that Hapkido doesn't have as much ground work as Jiu Jitsu, Is this the only difference?" This is a somewhat difficult question. By the term "Jiu Jitsu" (and your reference to groundwork) I'm assuming that you are referring to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. The Japanese "styles" typically use the "jujutsu" romanization, although this differs (especially here in the states). A comparison between BJJ and Hapkido would be difficult...largely because it depends upon which "Brazilian Jiu-jitsu" you are asking about. Currently, BJJ is practiced in three distinct (although, highly interwoven) apsects: 1. For self-defense. 2. As a sport. 3. As a base art for Vale Tudo (anything goes), or NHB/MMA type of fighting. In general, BJJ practicioners spend much of their training (upwards of 90%) on developing ground grappling skills. This differs from academy to academy, and many (especially those training for ring fighting) cross-train in a variety of arts along with their BJJ training that may emphasize more stand-up work (Muay Thai, wrestling, boxing, Judo, etc). It is a core concept/belief within BJJ, that most "real" fights end up with one or both fighters on the ground, and that it is wise for a skilled fighter to actively try and take the fight TO the ground (especially when fighting a larger opponent who is bent on striking). I think it's safe to say that this mentality/belief is not shared within most Hapkido circles. Another difference would be the absence of much small-joint manipulation within the typical BJJ curriculum, but (again) this is dependent upon the level of cross-training that is taking place. I think it's safe to say that Hapkido has a "highly developed" curriculum for small-joint manipulation. BJJ does not possess this emphasis (nor knowledge base) since its parent art (Kodokan Judo) does not contain a large emphasis on small-joint manipulation, and BJJ has since developed as a largely independent branch of the Kodokan Judo tree with obvious emphasis on ne-waza skills. In fairness to your question, I think it's safe to say that "Hapkido doesn't have as much groundwork". However, the danger in making this type of statement is that some people (yes...some on this list) will try and turn it into a statement of value when in actuality it is merely a point of fact. Also, the "groundwork issue" is not the ONLY difference. Obviously, they do not share a similar history, and a multitude of technical distinctions exist outside of those that I briefly mentioned. One could go on-and-on. Both are great arts, and have a lot to offer on many different levels. In this (perhaps the most important quality), they are identical. Craig "Working toward my blue belt in BJJ" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:18:23 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Young Masters In a message dated 8/21/2001 2:23:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Your post about Mr. 23y/o Founder-of-a-chinese-style said more than all my ranting ever could. I hope aspiring teachers and school directors take a good long look and ponder what sort of process could have possibly made it OK for a person to present himself in this fashion. I'll even take it one step farther and suggest that even if Mr. F.O.A.C.S. were to get his butt beat and be publicly humiliated he would still not have a clue about how things went wrong for him. >> Bruce, We have even one younger than that in our town. He opened up an Aikido dojo at the age of 19 ! I know who his old teachers were ... he never made black belt in any of the karate styles he studied ... claiming they were inferior to him and couldn't teach him anymore ... and the guy that gave him his black belt in Aikido did so in 8 months time. He is famous for doing that up here and that guy is a joke. But this kid wants all of his students to work doubly hard and long ... 5 to 6 years to black belt in his style of Aikido ... you should see how long his tests are ! And each one is like a black belt test in itself ! And I am talking about going from White Belt to Yellow Belt or Yellow Belt to Orange Belt. Unbelieveable. And his parents back him up 100% ... as a matter of fact his mom is one of those black belts, too. oh well. Illona ------------------------------ From: "Dizzy S." Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:30:22 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Memory Lane Prince Loeffler, wrote: <<>> Phil wrote: <>> Me: Oops. Are we not supposed to learn tornado kicks (I know it as a 360 roundhouse) at white belt??? hee hee. I was told (maybe it was scolded ... I think), by instructors about learning "advanced" stuff at white belt. It's a big no no (hanging my head in shame, and I have to agree with Phil on the "I wasn't ready for that at the time"). Now that I'm a green belt, I know that I should have been working on BLOCKING, not "tricks" (advanced kicks). Sparring hurts when ya can't block fast enough (ouch .... checking to see if my head is still there and counting the bruises). Ha, the memories (and I'm only a green belt! lol). All jokes aside. Yes, I'm only a green belt, but I'm almost depressed that I'm testing already (monday)! I've been working hard as a green belt (on technique and BLOCKING lol .... something I should have done at white and orange belt). I've been getting better, enough to have my instructor ask me to teach a new white belt the first coupla one steps or basic kicks. The first time he asked me, I looked at him in shock, my jaw was on the floor looking around to see who he was pointing at to teach the new white belt, "who me?" Maybe it's his way of keeping me "grounded" as far as the basics go. Teaching someone else, you HAVE to think about the basics and the technique before showing someone else, and it's helped me alot. My ego of knowing how to do advanced stuff is gone, cause I realized that that s**t don't work in real life. Just a story of my short MA life down memory lane :o) Dizzy 6th gup TSD www.imahq.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:50:47 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido What is it - It is not War and Peace! All, IMHO and with all due respect to others, the historic multi-cultural intertwining of the far east have as much to do with the development of Hapkido, as France's support of the US in the 1700's has to do with Rap music. What is Hapkido? - Hapkido is whatever GM Ji says it is. Hapkido is dynamic. Hapkido will become what we make of it. Hapkido is a way of life that encourages harmony. >I was wondering if someone could tell me the main differences between Hapkido and Jiu Jitsu? I've heard that Hapkido doesn't have as much ground work as Jiu Jitsu, Is this the only difference?< It depends on the Jiu Jitsu in question, and the focus of the Hapkido in question. For the sake of brevity, the level of kicking proficiency and the level of ground proficiency would be the two most likely differences. Getting in the WAY, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:25:30 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido vs Ju-jutsu Dear Danny: "...., I was wondering if someone could tell me the main differences between Hapkido and Jiu Jitsu? I've heard that Hapkido doesn't have as much ground work as Jiu Jitsu, Is this the only difference? ..." Hapkido does have groundwork, but it is a matter of extent. Some folks would like to present Hapkido as all things to all people. Its a commercial thing not unlike any other MA where people need to draw in the crowd to pay the bills. When kicks are popular (a'la BILLY JACK) then people play up the kicking. When groundwork is popular (a'la BJJ) then suddenly Hapkido has all this ground work. Traditional Hapkido has groundwork, submission, binding, knife techniques and a host of other things but its usually not as comprehensive as some style which specializes in such things (ie. Escrima for stick fighting, Penjak Silat for knives, or Muay Thai for full-contact). The theory seems to be in Korean traditions that the teacher shows the basics and then coaches the student to a level of competence at which time a natural preference for a particular aspect of the art is shown by the pupil and that becomes his "specialty". If I were operating under such a model regarding your question, you would learn traditional ground techniques (about 3rd BB) and if later that became your preference I would refer you to someone I would know who would continue that training into a specialized realm. Hope this makes sense. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:05:43 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Oh My Aching Toe I apologize for belaboring the list with this question, but I'd appreciate some input from the collective experience, here. In all my years I have never broken a single bone (that I'm aware of)...until tonight. The little pinky toe on my left foot tried his (her?) best to penetrate the mat, but the mat is one tough old boy. The mat said, "No", and my toe went snap, crackle, and pop. Is it true what I've always heard..."just tape it to the next one". The thing is obviously broken (unless I grew a another joint in my toe over the last 24 hours), but it doesn't hurt hardly at all. Please tell me this doesn't warrant a trip to a doctor...I really don't see how. Any advice, tips, or old wives tales that will help get this thing to healing ASAP are much appreciated. I'm sure between the members here we've broken several hundred (dare I say thousand) toes and fingers. Craig "Couldn't Have Happened to a Nicer Guy" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 6:58:19 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #493 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.