From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #494 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 22 Aug 2001 Vol 08 : Num 494 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Oh My Aching Toe the_dojang: RE: War and Peace the_dojang: Re: Lil toe the_dojang: age the_dojang: Unwanted visitors. the_dojang: RE: That little toe OHHHHHHH the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #493 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #493 the_dojang: Re: Broken small toe the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Melissa Lambton" Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:02:25 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Oh My Aching Toe Sir, I too have damaged my toe in the past. I was performing a simply old reverse turning kick when the toe next to my little toe on my right foot got stuck in between the mats on the dojang floor. You know the type of matting that fits together in puzzle piece type fashion. Needless to say, my toe and part of my foot began to swell like a balloon. After hobbling around for two days, I went to the hospital where it was announced that my toe had been dislocated as it had been bent right under my foot and remained at a weird angle. One quick yelp by me and sharp pull by the doctor on my toe later, and it was pulled back into place. The aftercare treatment was to simply take ant-inflammatories and tape it to the next toe. Much like the advice given to you. My advice would be to get it checked out by a doctor, and in the mean time, tape it up and don't have any more arguments with the mat. Taekwon. Melissa 1st degree ITF TKD > From: "Craig Stovall" > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:05:43 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: Oh My Aching Toe > > I apologize for belaboring the list with this question, but I'd appreciate > some input from the collective experience, here. > > In all my years I have never broken a single bone (that I'm aware > of)...until tonight. The little pinky toe on my left foot tried his (her?) > best to penetrate the mat, but the mat is one tough old boy. The mat said, > "No", and my toe went snap, crackle, and pop. > > Is it true what I've always heard..."just tape it to the next one". The > thing is obviously broken (unless I grew a another joint in my toe over the > last 24 hours), but it doesn't hurt hardly at all. > > Please tell me this doesn't warrant a trip to a doctor...I really don't see > how. Any advice, tips, or old wives tales that will help get this thing to > healing ASAP are much appreciated. I'm sure between the members here we've > broken several hundred (dare I say thousand) toes and fingers. > > Craig "Couldn't Have Happened to a Nicer Guy" Stovall ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:14:37 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: War and Peace Patrick wrote, "IMHO and with all due respect to others, the historic multi-cultural intertwining of the far east have as much to do with the development of Hapkido, as France's support of the US in the 1700's has to do with Rap music." Well...I dunno. Here's my take on it. The "relevancy" of these things is governed largely by what level one is currently looking at the art. If I were looking at Hapkido at a very "low level" (worm's eye view), then no, these things are not as relevant. In fact, my focus would probably be more drawn toward the technical nuances of the art...what does it "look like" and "contain" in terms of punches, kicks, locks, throws, and weaponry. In defense of Bruce's contribution, I think his work has a lot of value for those choosing to look at Hapkido at a very "high level" (bird's eye view). In this instance, his writings can help the serious practicioner to come to a deeper understanding of the cultural backdrop against which this art was "created". For example, a greater understanding of Korea's social, political, and religious systems may lend toward a clearer perspective of why things are done a certain way within the "Hapkido tradition"...the way knowledge is transferred from teacher to student, the use of a heirarchial ranking system, the value system that is encoded within the oral traditions of the Hapkido dojang, etc. From there, the practicioner can better assess the value of these practices and traditions, and ascertain whether or not those things need to be modified, reinterpreted, or simply discarded. In other words, the student can become empowered to either continue the "tradition" that was handed to him/her, or choose to make it more of that "dynamic" thing that you mentioned. The macro and micro are always connected...their correlations become more apparent when one chooses to take a high altitude peek. I think (please correct me) that this is what Bruce was doing. I'm confident that he's also capable of boring us to tears about the tiniest technical nuances within the typical Hapkido curriculum. I just think that the purpose of his "War and Peace" essay was to paint a broader picture. Then again what do I know... Craig "I tried to take a high-level view once...but I got a nosebleed" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:25:19 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Lil toe Craig, My suggestion is tape that toe to the next toe while you are on your feet. After you have passed the first 36 hours where you have used the RICE method, then, soak your foot (toe) in a mixture of Apple Cider Vinegar and Hot water in a foot pan, add a brown paper bag (tear it up). The lignin from the paper will interact with the vinegar and provide a healing solution. This works on all strains, sprains, etc. Soak for 20 to 30 minutes. george petrotta http://hapkido.4dw.com FREE ISA membership >From: "Craig Stovall" >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:05:43 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: Oh My Aching Toe > >I apologize for belaboring the list with this question, but I'd appreciate >some input from the collective experience, here. > >In all my years I have never broken a single bone (that I'm aware >of)...until tonight. The little pinky toe on my left foot tried his (her?) >best to penetrate the mat, but the mat is one tough old boy. The mat said, >"No", and my toe went snap, crackle, and pop. > >Is it true what I've always heard..."just tape it to the next one". The >thing is obviously broken (unless I grew a another joint in my toe over the >last 24 hours), but it doesn't hurt hardly at all. > >Please tell me this doesn't warrant a trip to a doctor...I really don't see >how. Any advice, tips, or old wives tales that will help get this thing to >healing ASAP are much appreciated. I'm sure between the members here we've >broken several hundred (dare I say thousand) toes and fingers. > >Craig "Couldn't Have Happened to a Nicer Guy" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 9:02:02 PDT Subject: the_dojang: age While it does seem a bit strange for a young 20-something year old to create their own martial arts organization, think about how young some/many/most of the Koreans were that started their own, very popular, MA orgs and styles. Several were only in their late teens... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Richard Zaruba Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:25:24 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Unwanted visitors. I have a question for those of you on the list. How many of you have had people come in to watch (not participate) class to: A) Pick up techniques to add to their "own" style. B) Check out you and your students for an upcoming tournament. C) Try to steal your students and aggravate you. I've run into all three just over the last year (might have something to do with the fact I have my school right outside a Air Force Base and it is an ever changing population. Also what did you do in the situation? Examples of my experiences: A) I've had a "visitor" come in and watch me teach Ki Bon Soo (our first set of techniques) to several white belts and then found out he was trying to teach them to his so called advanced students the next week as highly advanced material in his style. In that situation I don't believe there was anything I could do about it. It was and still is aggravating, but he did end up losing five students to me after they worked with one of my students over a t the base fitness center by accident. B) Every time there is a tournament in my area I have a number of "visitors" come during my classes, especially my advanced and sparring classes. They watch and never have any questions when they are greeted at first or later on, unless they are asking questions of one of my lower belts. These same people turn up at the tournament as our competitors usually as advanced and black belts. It doesn't seem to help them much but they can be very distracting. It is not that I am trying to hide anything, I emphasize basic techniques, combos and principles that are available from any good instructor and then teach according to each person's body type how to apply them. C) This last one happened very recently so it is still fresh in my mind. I had a "visitor" come to my class and then start running his mouth about how everything we did was wrong. I invited him out on to the mat to demonstrate using me as his partner, he refused saying that that would be a complete waste of his time. I figured he would leave, he sat there and then began the same thing again and telling my students that they should just give up on their training with me and come train with him. At this point one of my intermediate students went and talked to him after which he left very quickly. The student happens to be a member of the law enforcement community here and I did here something said about being arrested. Still this whole incident leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I wonder what I should do next time and what impression my beginning students got. Any suggestions? I have an open door policy for visitors because I get most of my students through word of mouth and people who are curious and stop in to watch. I still do other advertisements but I would say 85% of my students are from word of mouth and then watching class, or just stopping by and watching a class. Rich _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba Department of Anatomy & Cell Biology University of North Dakota School of Medicine 501 North Columbia Road P.O. Box 9037 Grand Forks, ND 58202-9037 zaruba@medicine.nodak.edu 701.777.3952 office 701.777.2576 lab 701.777.2477 fax ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:47:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: That little toe OHHHHHHH Craig, I'm not a doctor, but I've had 2 little toes broke. I just made sure the broken bone was set straight and and taped it to the toe next toe. Had a lot of bruising both times, but it healed in about 3 weeks. Took it easy for another 3 or 4 just to make sure. Toes turned out just fine. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:53:46 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #493 In a message dated 08/22/2001 8:32:54 AM EST, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << In fairness to your question, I think it's safe to say that "Hapkido doesn't have as much groundwork". However, the danger in making this type of statement is that some people (yes...some on this list) will try and turn it into a statement of value when in actuality it is merely a point of fact. Also, the "groundwork issue" is not the ONLY difference. Obviously, they do not share a similar history, and a multitude of technical distinctions exist outside of those that I briefly mentioned. One could go on-and-on. >> A good percentage of Hapkido techniques don't require the MA to follow the non MA opponent to the ground -- the opponent isn't usually in a position to continue the fight (Broken joints and dislocated limbs can really ruin a guy's day). From what I've seen of BJJ, it's more submission-based then knocked out based. (I can stand to be corrected, as the few submission fights I've seen might interest adventurous romantic couples more then MAs.....) That said, Hapkido does have holds and traps, but the ones I know are performed more from a one knee on the floor position. (Hapkido is a part of our schools curriculum, but I have no doubt a pure Hapkido practitioner has a wider base of knowledge then I do.....) Craig ------------------------------ From: Dave Weller Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:12:43 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #493 Craig "weak toes" Stovall asked: >Is it true what I've always heard..."just tape it to the next one". The >thing is obviously broken (unless I grew a another joint in my toe over the >last 24 hours), but it doesn't hurt hardly at all. My wife is an Xray tech and has seen many broken bones. She sez, tape it and forget it, that's what the doc will do anyhow. Unless you have a bone poking out, or a serious disfigurement. If the pain gets bad, I'd have a stiff Wellers&water (hold the water). Antropologists are saying that the little toe will be gone in our species in the next several generations anyhow, so maybe you are taking one of the first steps (er, limps?) in the natural selection process. Maybe next time you'll show that mat a bit more respect! Hope you heal quickly dave weller student wtf tkd "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: Victor Cushing Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:11:19 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Broken small toe "I am not a Doctor, but I always wanted to play one on TV" . If the fracture is a hairline break which leads to swelling and lovely eggplant tones in the surrounding soft tissue, then taping to the neighbor and dosing with up to 2400 mg of Ibuprofen daily for no longer than ten days will suffice. However, if you actually shattered that puppy, then I would skip the home remedies lest your bone reform in some odd shape with an accompanying life-long bump which you or someone near and dear to you may find unsightly at a later date. I did just tape a broken finger to its neighbor with such a result, so be careful of advice that doesn't involve actual Doctors making a diagnosis and treatment plan Vic "gee, that finger looks funny" Cushing. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:47:36 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #494 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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