From:      the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
To:        the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Subject:   The_Dojang-Digest V8 #509
Reply-To:  the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Precedence: 


The_Dojang-Digest             Fri, 31 Aug 2001          Vol 08 : Num 509

In this issue:

       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507
       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507
       the_dojang: Call for Papers
       the_dojang: <no subject>
       the_dojang: Re: young instructors
       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #508
       the_dojang: Re: Energy Channels - Massages explanation by doctors
       the_dojang: Re: Young teachers
       the_dojang: TSD -> SBD Records?
       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507
       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507
       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507
       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507
       the_dojang: teaching
       Subject: the_dojang: Martial Arts, Martial Sport
       the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507 : RE: Teacher stuff
       the_dojang: Sport vs Art
       the_dojang: .
=========================================================================

The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994.  ~1000 members strong!
Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource

The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts.

Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you.

To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in
the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed
to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com.

To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com

See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for
back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com

Pil Seung!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Weller <dweller@greatbend.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:34:36 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507

Louise asked:
>From: Loucat101@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:35:07 EDT
>Subject: the_dojang: Young teachers
>
>I was wondering, how old would you (any martial arts teachers) want a student 
>to be before they started teaching? Would you say grade mattered if they were 
>teaching below their own grade, eg a yellow belt teaching a white belt? I'm 
>curious because I want to start teaching but I'm only a yellow belt and I 
>don't want to do something wrong...obviously, I only want to be an assistant 
>instructor, but what are your views?
>Louise

I would say that call would be up to your instructor. Other than teaching very basic things to lower belts, my opinion would be to wait until you have learned more yourself. But, again, that is up to your instructor, he knows your talents and shortcomings much better than even you.

Just the humble opinion of one student.

dave weller  student   wtf tkd

"Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline.
Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself."
Myamoto Musashi


------------------------------

From: Neal Konecky <dnkonecky@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:02:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507

Craig,

Sorry to tell you, there is no instant cure for your toe.  

On the other hand, western medicine is starting to recognize acupuncture as being of
value.  Mostly it is used now as pain management.  Many doctors and chiropractors are
taking acupuncture, although I fear for the wrong reasons.


To my knowledge, the existence of meridians has not been proven (much the same as the
human soul or whatever you want to call that which animates our bodies).  There have been
numerous studies made with respect to the benefits of acupuncture.  Unfortunately, I can
not point you in any particular direction.

You can take a look at the Dragon Society Int'l website.  There are kirlian (sp) photos
in the site.  They purport to photograph the energy discharge surrounding a person. 
While I know something of the techniques of kirlian photography, I can not say whether
these photos are actual kirlian photos.

Sorry I could not be of more help.

Neal

 In regards to the recent talk about energy channels/meridians...does 
"western" medicine and science recognize the existance of these 
channels?  
If so, has their existence been proven/identified through the use of 
modern 
medical technology (thermographic imaging, magnetic resonance, etc)?  
Any 
known studies that can be sited?


=====
“Whenever a people or an institution forgets its hard beginnings, it is beginning to decay.”
Carl Sandburg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com

------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <rterry@idiom.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:32:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: the_dojang: Call for Papers

Forwarded message:

Call for Papers

Korean Immigration to North America
(including Canada, Mexico, and Hawai'i)

May 17-19, 2002
Seoul, Korea

Sponsored by
The Center for the Promotion of Korean Studies, Yonsei University
The Center for Korean Studies, University of Hawai'i-Manoa

The Center for the Promotion of Korean Studies, Yonsei University, and the
Center for Korean Studies, University of Hawai'i-Manoa, invite proposals for
papers to be presented at the Conference on Korean Immigration to North
America, to be held at Yonsei University in Seoul, Korea, May 17-19, 2002.

Proposals must fit within one of these themes: Korean Perspectives on
Immigration to America; Korean Immigrant Life, Settlement, and Adjustment in
North America; Korean Immigrant Religion, Education, and Social Organizations
in North America; and Korean Nationalist Activities in North America.

Please submit an abstract of about 500 words describing your proposed paper.
In the abstract discuss the methodology you will use and comment on how this
paper will contribute to a new understanding of your topic. Proposals may be
written in Korean or English.

Abstracts are due October 1, 2001. An announcement of proposals accepted will
be made November 1, 2001.

Proposals may be sent to either of these addresses:

Prof. In Whoe Kim
Center for the Promotion of Korean
Studies
Yonsei University
134 Shinchon-dong, Sodaemun-gu
Seoul, Korea 120-749

Edward J. Shultz
Center for Korean Studies
University of Hawai'i-Manoa
1881 East-West Road
Honolulu, Hawai'i 96822
USA

------------------------------

From: "Rudy Timmerman" <kwanjang@nkmaa.ca>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:37:03 -0400
Subject: the_dojang: <no subject>

Illona writes:
> Appreciation and Healthcare ?  Could you give me another hint ?

Does "reality check" ring a bell?  BTW, I got the post from Jack.
Rudy

------------------------------

From: Piotr Bernat <dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:03:11 +0200
Subject: the_dojang: Re: young instructors

> I was wondering, how old would you (any martial arts teachers) want a student 
> to be before they started teaching?

Generally, when someone works as my assistant during a class, he or she is a Red or Black Belt. There is no general rule for age. I have a 13 year old 1st Poom (Junior Dan) which is in my opinion more mature and responsible than some 18 years olds. Besides, I like him to help me during my children classes, since it seems to be a good motivation for 12-13 years olds to see a person of the same age wearing a Poom Belt and showing a high proficiency. But usually, my assistants are 18 or older.

Regards
- -- 
Piotr Bernat
dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl
http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl

------------------------------

From: Creed71963@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:35:33 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #508

In a message dated 08/29/2001 5:36:19 PM EST, 
the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:

<< Louise Wrote :
 "I was wondering, how old would you (any martial arts teachers) want a 
student 
 to be before they started teaching? Would you say grade mattered if they 
were 
 teaching below their own grade, eg a yellow belt teaching a white belt? I'm 
 curious because I want to start teaching but I'm only a yellow belt and I 
 don't want to do something wrong...obviously, I only want to be an assistant
 instructor, but what are your views?">>

Ideally the senior belt in the class should be that assistant, especially if 
the person in question is 1st or 2nd gup. A person of that level should be 
able to take the white belts and teach them the basics, allowing the 
instructor to work with the other belts.

Other then that, it's a matter of playing it by ear. I wouldn't allow a child 
to teach an adult, but I would do the oppsite. Gold belt may be too new to 
teach a white belt -- maybe I would allow a green belt to teach, more 
certainly a brown belt and most defintely a red belt. But it also depends on 
what the personity of the student is. I might assign a shy green belt to work 
with a white belt to try and get them to be less shy. Or maybe a Brown belt 
who cannot stay up in class because they are nursing an injury.

Gold belt is too soon, IMO, but there's nothing stopping you from observing 
the instructor during class, and leaning how to (Or how not to) teach from 
the instructor. Learning the details that you as an instructor would need to 
know and taking that and folding it into your own personality. Ask questions 
if there is not 100% understanding on something, because sonner or later, 
someone will ask a question that falls into that slight area that you're not 
clear on.

Above all else, keep learning -- there is no one who pursuse the way of a 
martial artist that knows everything. that does not keep them from trying....

Craig

------------------------------

From: "GARCIA ROS, David" <dagarc@unav.es>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:32:51 +0200
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Energy Channels - Massages explanation by doctors

I think you could be interested.
I visited just yesterday one web developed by the most important Private Hospital in Spain
(Universitary Private Hospital), and I was surprised by an article about massage.
Sorry for the language.
http://www.abctusalud.com/documento.asp?ID=6920&G=80
- ------------------------------------------
"Craig Stovall" <craigstovall@hotmail.com>  wrote:
<<<In regards to the recent talk about energy channels/meridians...does
"western" medicine and science recognize the existance of these channels?
If so, has their existence been proven/identified through the use of modern
medical technology (thermographic imaging, magnetic resonance, etc)?  Any
known studies that can be sited?>>>
- -----------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "GARCIA ROS, David" <dagarc@unav.es>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:53:30 +0200
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Young teachers

In my opinion it is a good attitude to be interested to teaching.
The most common in a class is to have different grades, what makes more difficult  to prepare the
class to everyone likes.
Sometimes, I ask for help to a experienced student with new ones, while I focus my attention in high
grades.
This is a dangerous option, because your experienced student often gets bored and you have to
compensate always that help later.
But that's not your case. Ja! Would you like to learn with me?  (It's a joke).
In conclussion, if you teach too much while being a low grade, OK you will learn same different
points of view, but your own apprenticeship will be slower.
- -----------------------------
Loucat101@aol.com wrote:
I was wondering, how old would you (any martial arts teachers) want a student
to be before they started teaching? Would you say grade mattered if they were
teaching below their own grade, eg a yellow belt teaching a white belt? I'm
curious because I want to start teaching but I'm only a yellow belt and I
don't want to do something wrong...obviously, I only want to be an assistant
instructor, but what are your views?
Louise
- ------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Lasich, Mark D." <Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:39:53 -0400
Subject: the_dojang: TSD -> SBD Records?

Does anyone know if rank that one held in the former US Tang Soo Do Moo Duk
Kwan association was transferred to another organization when US TSD went
back to SBD? Did the SBD keep those records?

When I completed my undergraduate work in 1985, I held a 5th gup through a
college US TSD MDK club. I subsequently trained in TKD, but wonder from time
to time if my rank remains "on the books" somewhere. Not that it really
matters, but I am just curious.

In the spirit,
Mark
mark.lasich@alcoa.com


------------------------------

From: Chereecharmello@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:41:36 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507

<<Begin Clip>> We emphasize self-improvement rather than competition. We 
never attend tournaments other than a small internal tournament every year. 
We practice
 hyung, one-step, self-defense, sparring etc. Our sparring is non-contact (no
 pads or anything) and is designed to improve the speed and accuracy of
 technique rather than to score points. <<End Clip>>

I can say exactly the same for our organization.

- -Cheree

------------------------------

From: Chereecharmello@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:02:35 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507

<< I was wondering, how old would you (any martial arts teachers) want a 
student 
 to be before they started teaching >>

Unsupervised by an adult: at least 18 (for liability sake)

Supervised: dependent upon the students level of maturity, not age.


------------------------------

From: Chereecharmello@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:12:21 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507

<<Begin Clip>> Would you say grade mattered if they were teaching below their 
own grade, eg a yellow belt teaching a white belt? <<End Clip>>

I don't see anything wrong with helping students below you. However, I don't 
believe a yellow belt has enough knowledge to teach formally. Do you only 
wish to aid your instructor?

Even though you may be a serious, hard-training student, you may not have 
perfected your technique enough to adequately teach other students.

One of our Tang Soo Do principles: "Do not be overly ambitious." Translation: 
Don't jump the gun...learn at the pace established and be patient.

- -Cheree

------------------------------

From: Chereecharmello@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:19:08 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507

<<Begin Clip>> In regards to the recent talk about energy 
channels/meridians...does 
 "western" medicine and science recognize the existance of these channels?  
 If so, has their existence been proven/identified through the use of modern 
 medical technology (thermographic imaging, magnetic resonance, etc)?  Any 
 known studies that can be sited? <<End Clip>>

I was wondering the same thing...

I have read several anthropological studies in which the validity of certain 
ritualistic "healing" measures were proven to benefit people of the culture 
in which they are performed. It is similar to a devote Catholic praying to 
God...If you truly believe you will be helped, then the psychological aspect 
may have a profound effect on you physiologically.

I have a friend, whom I believe to be sane and intelligent, that swears by 
the healing powers of acupuncture.

I am too afraid of being turned into 'Hell Raiser's Pin Head' to try...

- -Cheree

------------------------------

From: "Dizzy S." <karatekid1975@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:45:27 -0400
Subject: the_dojang: teaching

Louise Wrote :
<<<I was wondering, how old would you (any martial arts teachers) want a 
student to be before they started teaching? Would you say grade mattered if 
they were teaching below their own grade, eg a yellow belt teaching a white 
belt? I'm curious because I want to start teaching but I'm only a yellow 
belt and I don't want to do something wrong...obviously, I only want to be 
an assistant instructor, but what are your views?>>>

First, I wanna say that that is great that you wanna teach, Louise :o) So, 
do I. Most future MA instructors show interest in teaching early on (yellow 
belt thru green), as my instructor put it. I am only a green belt. But I do 
wanna teach, and I do help out in class. I am also 26. How old are you?

Brian wrote:
<<<I would start by saying that grade does not matter to me personally.  I 
have seen really great instructors wearing all manner of belts.  I have also 
seen really terrible instructors wearing all different ranks.>>>

Thank you, Brian :o) You said what I was going to say :o)

Brian again:
<<<Chronological age matters a little more, but is not a good gage of 
"instructor ability" either.  I worry about age only as it applies to the 
age of students to be taught.  While a 14 yr old may be able to teach a 12 
yr old, I would not think of putting in front of an adult ... A younger 
instructor with an older student can often lead to problems in Respect and 
sometimes leads to loss of the student>>>

This part is so true, Brian (well, at least, in my dojang anyways). Two 
examples: One junior instructor is 19, but his abilities at a martial artist 
and teacher are fantastic. The adults love him. But then again, we have a 15 
year old that teaches also. Her ablilities as a martial artist is great, and 
she is good with the kids, but I personally think she should not be teaching 
the adult classes. Example: One night she was arguing with one of the other 
junior instructors while the adult class was standing there watching (when 
she is suposed to be teaching). Our master instructor told her to calm down 
and she lashed out on him (he couldn't teach or even stand long due to a 
knee injury). My jaw was on the floor (cause she showed disrespect in the 
dojang to the master instructor). This is not the first time she did stuff 
like this (there were many times before). A few of us were about to leave. A 
few nights after that, if she was teaching, a few (adults) did leave. They 
are getting fed up with her disrespect, and "childish" games.

Eventhough she is an instructor, she should have showed respect to her 
elders. Most of the adults in my dojang would agree and have. If she wanted 
to argue with one of the instructors, she should have to takin it outside.

Brian again:
<<<The "defining attribute" I look for is time in the art.  Many times I 
have found that I didn't really fully understand a technique and its uses 
until well after I first learned it.  Not that anything was being "hidden" 
from me, only that until I had practiced the movement 1000's of times and 
under different conditions I hadn't really understood why it was taught to 
me as it was.  Before anybody teaches a technique they must understand the 
technique and the method to use to teach it.>>>

I have to agree there, Brian.


<<<Also, many times I have found that once I began "instructing" I would be 
asked questions by students that I had not personally worked with and was 
not prepaired adequately to answer their questions>>>

That happened to me. But my instructor also told me after he picked me to 
teach one steps to this white belt, if she has any questions I can't answer, 
just give him a holler. He knows I wanna teach, and he said that this is a 
learning experience for me (to learn how to teach while teaching). I agree 
with him.

Ok, I'm going on and on. The annoying green belt on the post is going now 
lol.

Dizzy
www.imahq.net

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


------------------------------

From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" <KNESSWORTHY@exchange1.PRIA.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:30:29 -0400
Subject: Subject: the_dojang: Martial Arts, Martial Sport

Nick,
	 I read your response with interest and I see you use the words
'classical' and 'traditional' in your comments. All was going well until you
said to look at our "club".

Now correct me if I am wrong here, but a club is some where you go and hang
out and kill time !! on the other hand a "school" is a place of learning.

If any of my students refer to our school as a club I get greatly offended
and I invite them as a reward to do some puchups.

Regards

ken

Shinson Tang Soo Do (Newcastle, UK)

http://www.shinson-tsd.co.uk

------------------------------

From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" <KNESSWORTHY@exchange1.PRIA.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:30:33 -0400
Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #507 : RE: Teacher stuff

Bruce wrote

>The second issue is that most instructors are much to mechanistic in their
>teaching approach and way too pre-occupied with running a business to
attend
>to truly significant personal issues of their students. Perhaps some find
>time to be involved with what's happening with the personal lives of their
>students, but most simply are not so inclined. 

I don't know where you are from but at my school all my instructors our of a
high calibre and I would not dare let them open their own school if I
thought they were not competent in the art I teach (TSD).

Also the way I run my school is that all money made from instruction goes
back into a central fund after rent has been deducted. That fund is then
used to benefit the students, whether it's new equipment or to get a master
to hold a seminar. I don't and will not profit from my instruction.

I don't know about your priorities but mine are work, TSD, family. Luckily
all my family are involved in the art so I have great support.

Business are for someone to make a profit and profit does not belong the
martial arts (my personal view)

regards

ken
(III Dan, Shinson TSD)

Tang Soo!!

------------------------------

From: "Patrick L" <musashi1953@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:05:50 -0700
Subject: the_dojang: Sport vs Art

Dear Craig,

You seem to have taken my comments personally, when I intended them to be 
general.  I apologize for my lack of clarity.

I am seeing you point as less Sport vs. Art but rather pandering vs purity.  
Mass appeal schools serve their purpose for those that want that type of 
entertainment.  Schools that provide hard training for respectful students 
will never be hurt by Mass appeal schools - they service different clients.

>-- you have a limited time before you are past your prime.<

I would encourage you to reject the concept of physical capability as "the" 
determining factor of one's "right" to be a Blackbelt.  Service, Knowledge, 
Character, and Skill are, I believe, the elements of a worthy mixture.

Getting in the WAY,

Patrick




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:52:13 PDT
Subject: the_dojang: .


------------------------------

End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #509
********************************

 It's a great day for Taekwondo!  Support the USTU by joining today.
US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909
719-578-4632  FAX 719-578-4642  ustutkd1@aol.com  http://www.ustu.org

To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command:
    unsubscribe the_dojang-digest
 -or-
    unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address
in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail
addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com.

Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com.

Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource
Standard disclaimers apply.