From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #510 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 1 Sept 2001 Vol 08 : Num 510 In this issue: the_dojang: from Korean language to Korean philosophy...... the_dojang: Info sheet the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #509 the_dojang: Club and business comments the_dojang: Prof. Presas Memorial Celebration the_dojang: Ho from OH ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: from Korean language to Korean philosophy...... Forwarded message: KOREAN STUDIES CLASSES (ONLINE and onsite) www.iic.edu Fall 2001 Sept. 4 – Dec. 14 Intercultural Institute of California (IIC) Korean Center, Inc. (KCI) The fall semester will soon be upon us. IIC will be offering a wide range of ONLINE and onsite Korean Studies classes. Dr. Taehwan Han, who received his Ph.D. from the University of Hawaii, joined IIC recently as a full-time professor. Other faculty including Professor Jae Bum Kim, who has published a new book "I Ching Sociology (Chuyok Sahoihak)," will also be teaching ONLINE and onsite courses this semester. Some classes include: Theories of Korean Studies K600 (3 units) Thurs. 6:30 – 9:30 pm Professor Taehwan Han Economic Development of Korea K610 (3 units) ONLINE Professor Sang Mok Suh Korean Philosophy and Religion: Son Buddhism K660 (3 units) Tues. 6:30 – 9:30 pm (taught in Korean) Professor Jae Bum Kim Research Tools and Methods K695 (2 units) Wed. 6:30 - 9:30 pm Professor Taehwan Han Current Topics in Korean Affairs: Lecture Series K701 (3 units) Tues. and Thurs. 1 –2:30 pm (taught in Korean) Professor Jae Bum Kim and Lecturers Topics in Korean Civilization: Confucian Analects K706 (3 units) ONLINE (taught in Korean) Professor Jae Bum Kim Materials Development for Teaching Korean K710 (3 units) ONLINE Professor Lenore Blank Pedagogical Korean Linguistics K720 (3 units) ONLINE Professor Kyung-Hwan Mo Directed Studies/Internship K750 (3 units) ONLINE Professor Taehwan Han KOREAN LANGUAGE CLASSES Beginning Korean Level 1 K501-1 (3 units) Wed. 6:30 - 9:30 pm Instructor: Deborah Choi Beginning Korean Level 2 K501-2 (3 units) Mon. 6:30 - 9:30 pm Instructor: Deborah Choi Intermediate Korean Level 1 K502-1 (3 units) Mon. 6:30 - 9:30 pm Instructor: Hye Sook Oh Intermediate Korean Level 2 K502-2 (3 units) Tues. 6:30 - 9:30 pm Instructor: Won Hwang Advanced Korean K503-1 (3 units) Thurs. 6:30 - 9:30 pm Instructor: Won Hwang - ------- Intercultural Institute of California (IIC) Korean Center, Inc. (KCI) 1362 Post St. (at Gough) San Francisco, CA 94109 Phone: 415-441-1881 Fax: 415-885-4155 Web sites: www.iic.edu or www.koreannet.org Email: info@iic.edu For those interested in Korean business, history, culture, etc . . . Or for those who just want to get in touch with their Korean roots . . . Try a Korean studies class ONLINE from anywhere in the world or onsite in San Francisco at the Intercultural Institute of California (IIC)/Korean Center, Inc. (KCI). ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:12:05 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Info sheet Forwarded message: South Korea - Consular Information Sheet August 30, 2001 COUNTRY DESCRIPTION: The Republic of Korea (South Korea or ROK) is a highly developed, stable, democratic republic with powers shared between the president and the legislature. It has a modern economy, and tourist facilities are widely available. English is often not spoken outside the main tourist and business centers. The Korean National Tourism Organization (KNTO) has a useful web site in English at http://www.knto.or.kr, and can be reached in the U.S. by calling 1-800-868-7567. The KNTO also operates a telephone information service in South Korea, which can be reached by calling 757-0086 in Seoul and toll-free at 080-757-2000 in the rest of the country. The telephone service has English speakers and is available 9:00AM to 8:00PM every day of the week. ENTRY REQUIREMENTS: A passport is required. Visas are not required for tourist or business stays up to thirty days. For longer stays and other types of travel, visas must be obtained in advance. Changes of status from one type of visa to another (from tourism to teaching, for example) are normally not granted in South Korea. Individuals who stay in Korea longer than the period authorized by Korean immigration are subject to fines and may be required to pay the fines before departing the country. Individuals who plan to stay longer than the period authorized must apply to Korean immigration for an extension in advance. In an effort to prevent international child abduction, the Korean government has initiated special procedures at entry/exit points. These include requiring documentary evidence of relationship and permission for the child's travel from the parent(s) or legal guardian not present. Having such documentation on hand may facilitate entry/departure. For further information on entry requirements, contact the Embassy of the Republic of Korea at 2320 Massachusetts Avenue N.W., Washington, D.C. 20008, Telephone (202) 939-5660/63 or via the Korean Embassy Internet home page at http://www.mofat.go.kr/main/etop/html. South Korean Consulates are also located in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Guam, Honolulu, Houston, Los Angeles, Miami, New York City, San Francisco, and Seattle. The Korean Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade has a web site with a directory of all Korean diplomatic missions worldwide at http://www.mofat.go.kr/en_missions.htm. While active-duty U.S. military personnel may enter South Korea under the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with proper Department of Defense (DOD) identification and travel orders, every SOFA family member, civilian employee and contractor must have a valid passport and, in some cases, a SOFA visa to enter Korea. Active duty military personnel should obtain a tourist passport prior to leaving the U.S.. to accommodate off-duty travel elsewhere in Asia. DOD travelers should consult the DOD foreign clearance guide before leaving the U.S. South Korea's new Incheon International Airport is about one to two hours drive, depending on traffic, from the Seoul city center. There are no subways or railways connecting the Incheon International Airport to Seoul, but buses and taxis are available. American citizens must pay an airport departure tax, either US $12 or Korean won 15,000, when leaving South Korea. DUAL NATIONALITY: The Government of the Republic of Korea does not permit dual citizenship after an individual reaches the age of 21. Americans of Korean descent who hold dual citizenship under South Korean law and work or study in South Korea are usually compelled to choose one or the other nationality soon after reaching 20 years of age. In addition, South Korean citizen men age 18 and over are subject to compulsory military service. The Government of the Republic of Korea considers an individual to be a citizen of South Korea if the individual's name appears on the family census register. A male dual national who has reached the age of 18 may not be allowed to abandon his ROK nationality until he finishes his military service or has received a special exemption from military service. There have been several instances in which young American men of Korean descent, who were born and lived all of their lives in the United States, arrived in the ROK for a tourist visit only to be drafted into the South Korean army. At least two of these cases involved U.S. citizens of Korean descent whose names had been recorded on the Korean family census register at the time of their birth in the U.S. and who had been unaware of their South Korean citizenship. Further information concerning dual-nationality is available at the nearest South Korean consulate or through the Consular Affairs' Dual Nationality flyer on the Internet at http://travel.state.gov/. SAFETY AND SECURITY: In recent years, the U.S. Embassy and U.S. military installations throughout the Republic of Korea have taken steps to increase security at all facilities. U.S. citizens in the Republic of Korea should review their own personal security practices, be alert to any unusual activity around their homes or businesses, and report any significant incidents to local police authorities. CRIME INFORMATION: Although the crime rate in the Republic of Korea is low, in major metropolitan areas, such as Seoul and Pusan, there is a greater risk of pickpocketing, purse-snatching, assaults, hotel room burglaries, and residential crime, and foreigners can be targeted. U.S citizens are more likely to be targeted in known tourist areas, like Itaewon and other large market areas. Americans should stay alert, be aware of personal surroundings and exercise caution. Travelers may reduce the likelihood of encountering incidents of crime by exercising the same type of security precautions that they would take when visiting any large city in the United States. The emergency number to reach the police anywhere in South Korea is 112. English interpreters may be available. The Korean National Police (KNP) operate a Central Interpretation Center (CIC) where foreigners can report incidents of crime. The CIC is available on a twenty-four hour, seven-day-a-week basis. In Seoul, its telephone number is 313-0842; outside Seoul, its number is (02) 313-0842. The loss or theft of a U.S. passport should be reported immediately to the local police and the U.S. Embassy in Seoul. U.S. citizens may refer to the Department of State's pamphlet "A Safe Trip Abroad" for ways to promote a trouble-free journey. The pamphlet is available by mail from the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. 20402, via the Internet at http://www.acess.gpo.gov/su_docs, or via the Consular Affairs home page at http://travel.state.gov/. MEDICAL FACILITIES: Health care facilities in the Republic of Korea are good. Serious medical problems requiring hospitalization and/or medical evacuation to the United States can cost thousands of dollars or more. Doctors and hospitals often expect immediate cash payment for health services. A list of hospitals and medical specialists who speak English is available at the U.S. Embassy in Seoul or via the Internet at the Consular Affairs home page at http://travel.state.gov/. MEDICAL INSURANCE: The Department of State strongly urges Americans to consult with their medical insurance company prior to traveling abroad to confirm whether their policy applies overseas and whether it will cover emergency expenses such as a medical evacuation. U.S. medical insurance plans seldom cover health costs incurred outside the United States unless supplemental coverage is purchased. Further, U.S. Medicare and Medicaid programs do not provide payment for medical services outside the United States. However, many travel agents and private companies offer insurance plans that will cover health care expenses incurred overseas including emergency services such as medical evacuations. When making a decision regarding health insurance, Americans should consider that many foreign doctors and hospitals require payment in cash prior to providing service and that a medical evacuation to the U.S. may cost well in excess of $50,000. Uninsured travelers who require medical care overseas often face extreme difficulties. When consulting with your insurer prior to your trip, ascertain whether payment will be made to the overseas healthcare provider or whether you will be reimbursed later for expenses you incur. Some insurance policies also include coverage for psychiatric treatment and for disposition of remains in the event of death. Useful information on medical emergencies abroad, including overseas insurance programs, is provided in the Department of State's Bureau of Consular Affairs brochure, "Medical Information for Americans Traveling Abroad," available via the Bureau of Consular Affairs home page or autofax: (202) 647-3000. OTHER HEALTH INFORMATION: Information on vaccinations and other health precautions may be obtained from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's hotline for international travelers at 1-877-FYI-TRIP (1-877-394-8747); fax 1-888-CDC-FAXX (1-888-232-3299), or via CDC's Internet site at http://www.cdc.gov. TRAFFIC SAFETY AND ROAD CONDITIONS: While in a foreign country, U.S. citizens may encounter road conditions that differ significantly from those in the United States. The information below concerning South Korea is provided for general reference only, and may not be totally accurate in a particular location or circumstance. Safety of Public Transportation: Good Urban Road Conditions/Maintenance: Good Rural Road Conditions/Maintenance: Good Availability of Roadside/Ambulance Assistance: Good (However, assistance personnel may not be able to speak English.) Although South Korean roads are well paved, traffic lights function and most drivers comply with basic traffic laws, the ROK has a significantly higher traffic fatality rate than the United States. Causes of accidents include excessive speed, frequent lane changes, running of red lights, aggressive bus drivers, and weaving motorcyclists. Pedestrians should be aware that motorcycles are sometimes driven on the sidewalks and drivers of all types of vehicles do not always yield to pedestrians in marked pedestrian crosswalks. It is safer to use pedestrian underpasses and overpasses where available. Traffic laws in South Korea differ from laws in the United States in some respects. At many intersections with traffic lights, drivers are not permitted to make a left-hand turn if there is a green light and no oncoming traffic; normally there is a green arrow for left-hand turns and drivers may turn only when the left-hand arrow is illuminated. In most other cases, left-hand turns are prohibited and drivers must continue until special u-turn lanes are indicated, where drivers may reverse direction and make a right-hand turn at the desired intersection. Drivers may turn right on a red light after coming to a complete stop. Seat belts are mandatory. Children riding in the front seat of vehicles must wear a seat belt or must use an appropriate child car seat. Passengers on motorcycles must wear protective helmets. An international driving permit issued in the U.S. by the American Automobile Association (AAA) or the American Automobile Touring Alliance (AATA) is required of short-term visitors who drive in Korea. Otherwise, drivers must have a Korean driver's license. In all accidents involving an automobile and a pedestrian or motorcycle, the driver of the automobile, regardless of citizenship, is presumed to be at fault. Police investigations of traffic accidents usually involve long waits at police stations. Police may request to hold the passport of a foreigner involved in a traffic accident if there is any personal injury or a dispute about the cause of the accident. Criminal charges and heavy penalties are common in accidents involving injury, even if negligence is not proven. Persons arrested in accidents involving serious injury or death may be detained until the conclusion of the police investigation and legal process. Driving under the influence of alcohol is a serious offense. People driving in South Korea may wish to carry a disposable camera to document any traffic accidents, even minor ones. For specific information concerning South Korea driver's permits, vehicle inspection, road tax, and mandatory insurance, please contact the Korea National Tourism Organization office in Fort Lee, N.J., Telephone 1-800-868-7567 or check via the internet at http://www.knto.or.kr/index.html. AVIATION SAFETY OVERSIGHT: The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has assessed the Government of South Korea's civil aviation authority as Category 2 -- not in compliance with international aviation safety standards for the oversight of South Korea's air carrier operations. While consultations to correct the deficiencies are ongoing, the South Korean air carriers currently flying to the U.S. will be subject to heightened FAA surveillance. No additional flights or new service to the U.S. by South Korea's air carriers will be permitted unless they arrange to have the flights conducted by an air carrier from a country meeting international safety standards. For further information, travelers may contact the Department of Transportation within the U.S. at 1-800-322-7873, or visit the FAA's Internet website at http://www.faa.gov/avr/iasa. Code Share Flights: Travelers should be aware that a flight may be operated either by the U.S. carrier whose code appears on listings and tickets for the flight, or by another airline, which may be foreign, that has a codeshare relationship with the U.S. airline in question. For further information on U.S. regulations defining and covering codesharing, travelers should access http://ostpxweb.dot/aviation. The U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) separately assesses some foreign carriers for suitability as official providers of air services. In addition, DOD does not permit its personnel to use air carriers from Category 2 countries for official business except for flights originating from or terminating in the United States. DOD placed Korean Airlines (KAL) in non-use status in December 1999 and, to date, it remains in non-use status. DOD's theater commander can waive this non-use decision on KAL or Asiana Airlines when travel is mission essential. For information regarding the DOD policy on specific carriers, travelers may contact DOD at (618) 229-4801. CUSTOMS REGULATIONS: South Korean customs authorities may enforce strict regulations concerning temporary importation into or export from South Korea of items such as firearms, explosives, narcotics and prescription drugs, radio equipment, gold, books or other printed material, as well as video or audio recordings, that might be considered subversive to national security, obscene, or in any way harmful to the public interest and cultural property. Further, South Korea has customs laws and regulations to prevent the spread of hoof and mouth disease. Beef and pork products must be declared to South Korean customs officials upon arrival. It is advisable to contact the Embassy of the Republic of Korea in Washington, D.C. or one of the ROK consulates in the United States for specific information regarding customs requirements. Customs officials encourage the use of an ATA (Admission Temporaire/Temporary Admission) Carnet for the temporary admission of professional equipment, commercial samples, and/or goods for exhibitions and fair purposes. ATA Carnet Headquarters, located at the U.S. Council for International Business, 1212 Avenue of the Americas, New York, NY 10036, issues and guarantees the ATA Carnet in the United States. For additional information, please call telephone (212) 354-4480, or send an e-mail to atacarnet@uscib.org, or visit http://www.uscib.org for details. CRIMINAL PENALTIES: While in a foreign country, a U.S. citizen is subject to that country's laws and regulations, which sometimes differ significantly from those in the United States and may not afford the protections available to the individual under U.S. law. Penalties for breaking the law can be more severe than in the United States for similar offenses. Persons violating South Korean laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested, fined, or imprisoned. People arrested in South Korea, even for minor offenses, may be detained temporarily. Foreigners convicted of crimes in South Korea, whether or not sentenced to prison, are commonly deported, and may be banned from returning to the country for several years. Foreigners deported from Korea must pay for their own plane ticket. U.S. citizens should be aware that there was one recent case in which a U.S. citizen was prosecuted under the South Korean National Security Law, broad legislation which makes illegal actions considered subversive or anti-state. In this case, contact by the U.S. citizen with allegedly pro-North Korea figures in the United States and travel to North Korea formed part of the basis for prosecution. Adultery is a crime actively prosecuted in South Korea. Recently, a U.S. citizen was convicted of adultery and sentenced to six months imprisonment. Penalties for possession, use, or trafficking in illegal drugs in South Korea are strict, and convicted offenders can expect long jail sentences and heavy fines. Travelers should also be careful to adhere to Korean government regulations regarding currency exchange and customs declarations. PASSPORT SEIZURES/EXIT BANS AND COMMERCIAL DISPUTES: The Government of the Republic of Korea sometimes seizes the passports and blocks the departure from the country of foreigners involved in commercial disputes. In such circumstances, the U.S. Government reissues a passport to a U.S. citizen who applies for one. The ROK exit ban, however, remains in effect, thereby preventing departure. DEMONSTRATIONS: Occasionally, political, labor, and student demonstrations and marches have the potential to become confrontational or violent. American citizens in the Republic of Korea can minimize personal risks to themselves and their property by avoiding large demonstrations. WORKING IN SOUTH KOREA: Americans going to the Republic of Korea to work, teach or model (part-time or full-time, paid or unpaid) must enter the ROK using the appropriate work visa. Changes of status from any other visa status to a work visa are not granted within the country. Any foreigner who begins work without the appropriate visa is subject to arrest, costly fines, and deportation. Persons working without a valid work permit and who have a contractual dispute with their employers have little or no entitlement to legal recourse under South Korean law. TEACHING ENGLISH: The U.S. Embassy in Seoul receives many complaints from U.S. citizens who have gone to South Korea to teach English at private language schools ("hagwon"). The most frequent complaints are that the schools and/or employment agencies misrepresent salaries, working conditions, living arrangements and other benefits, including health insurance, even in the written contracts. There have also been some complaints of physical assault, threats of arrest/deportation, and sexual harassment. Some U.S.-based employment agencies have been known to misrepresent contract terms, employment conditions or the need for an appropriate work visa. A comprehensive handout entitled "Teaching English in Korea: Opportunities and Pitfalls " may be obtained at the U.S. Embassy in Seoul or via the Consular Affairs homepage at http://travel.state.gov/ under "Travel Publications ." DISASTER PREPAREDNESS: Legally, North and South Korea remain in a state of war. Peace has been maintained on the Korean peninsula under an Armistice for nearly 50 years. Recently, political, economic, and social contacts between North and South Korea have increased significantly. However, the possibility of military hostilities that could necessitate the evacuation of U.S. citizens from South Korea cannot be excluded. The U.S. Government has developed a Non-combatant Evacuation Operation (NEO) plan for the evacuation of U.S. citizens. A guide for U.S. citizens about the NEO plan is available on line at http://www.asktheconsul.org, or at the U.S. Embassy in Seoul. To provide enhanced protection to the dependents of U.S. military service members and to civilian Department of Defense (DOD) employees and their families, DOD provides protective gas masks and hoods to its noncombatant community in the Republic of Korea. In addition, the U.S. Embassy provides the same level of protection to its U.S. citizen personnel and their dependents. The gas masks and hoods provide the most fundamental level of protection in an emergency in which chemical substances are present. These measures do not result from any recent incident. They are a prudent precaution to further enhance the safety of U.S. Government-affiliated personnel and their families, and are part of a continuing effort to improve the U.S. Government's overall safety and security posture. If the Department of State becomes aware of any specific and credible threat to the safety and security of U.S. citizens, that information will be provided to the American public at large. The U.S. Government is not providing protective equipment to private American citizens in the Republic of Korea. As always, U.S. citizens should review their own personal security practices and must make their own decisions with regard to those precautions that they might take to avoid injury. Those who may wish to acquire protective equipment for personal use should contact commercial vendors who may be able to provide such equipment. For further information, please refer to the Department of State Fact Sheet entitled, "Chemical/Biological Agent Release," available at Internet address http://travel.state.gov/, or via the autofax by dialing (202) 647-3000 from a fax machine. Children's Issues: Adoption of South Korean children by foreign nationals is permitted and is carefully regulated. Any non-Korean wishing to adopt a South Korean child is required to work through one of the four ROK Government-licensed adoption agencies. This includes U.S. citizens of Korean ancestry who wish to adopt South Korean-citizen children. Private adoptions are not allowed. For information on international adoption of children and international parental child abduction, please refer to our internet site at http://travel.state.gov/children's_issues.html or telephone (202) 736-7000. REGISTRATION/EMBASSY LOCATION: Americans living in or visiting South Korea are encouraged to register at the Consular Section of the U.S. Embassy in Seoul and obtain updated information on travel and security within South Korea. The U.S. Embassy is located at 82 Sejong-Ro Chongro-Ku, Seoul, telephone (82-2) 397-4114 fax (82-2) 738-8845. The U.S. Embassy's web page can be found at http://usembassy.state.gov/seoul. ------------------------------ From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:42:53 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #509 In a message dated 08/31/2001 3:28:44 PM EST, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Dear Craig, >>You seem to have taken my comments personally, when I intended them to be general. I apologize for my lack of clarity.<< First, be assured that I didn't take your comments personally. The one problem with this type of communication is that you cannot get a clear intent with words because there is no vocal tone or facial expression to help gauge the exact meaning of the words. So, while I may have sounded like a madman by my words, I wasn't expressing any anger or contempt at your words. So we're dancing around with words, trying to figure out how much of which emotion the writer was putting into his or her words. >>I am seeing you point as less Sport vs. Art but rather pandering Vs purity. Mass appeal schools serve their purpose for those that want that type of entertainment. Schools that provide hard training for respectful students will never be hurt by Mass appeal schools -- they service different clients.<< I agree. There are both types. My concern (and shame on me for not saying this straight out earlier) is that maybe the "Arts" schools are being squeezed out by the "sport" schools, because the "sport" schools run with a higher profile, flashy ads, and BB in 18 months specials. Is the 'I want it now' mentality that seems to be out there these days hurting the "Arts" schools? > >-- you have a limited time before you are past your prime.< I would encourage you to reject the concept of physical capability as "the" determining factor of one's "right" to be a Blackbelt. Service, Knowledge, Character, and Skill are, I believe, the elements of a worthy mixture.>> When I used that line, I was referring only to the "sport" schools. I've seen the MA highlights shows they run on ESPN, for forms and other competitions. The top competitors are 18-20 years old. It seems to me that like an NFL player, the older you get, the less likely you will succeed in wining major tournaments. They train differently sport then they do for art. After you're over the hill, you open another school and train the next generation of competitors. A lot of these schools are treated like T-ball and soccer practice -- it's the 'in thing.' OTOH, Age is not a big deal in "arts" school, because those students are in it (Hopefully) for the long run. I have met enough 50 & 60-year old masters who were still quick of mind and body that I would not want to confront in the street. I have nothing but respect for these men. But their mindset is a total different one. They live the art, not the sport. And I think that is the main difference between these two branches Another factor is that Today's society is in a mentality that says "I want it now," mixed in with the idea that no one should get hurt doing anything. This is sliding into the area of lawsuit happy people who get hysterical because little Bobby bruised himself in class. I can remember many nights after class that we, the students, were B&B and LOVED it! (We weren't seriously hurt, no one lost control, no cheap shots) We can't do that these days, because someone might get hurt. How can a 'art' school survive that type of mentality? So, maybe I managed to untangle my mouth this time and make my points clearer. (no sarcasm intended) I am happy for this forum -- A certain MA NG seems to be spending more time trying to pin who's at fault in the middle East, and trying to incite a race war these days -- I've only seen a couple or three posts about the passing of GM Presas there.... Craig ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 00:08:38 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Club and business comments Ken Nessworthy writes: Nick, I read your response with interest and I see you use the words 'classical' and 'traditional' in your comments. All was going well until you said to look at our "club". Now correct me if I am wrong here, but a club is some where you go and hang out and kill time !! on the other hand a "school" is a place of learning. If any of my students refer to our school as a club I get greatly offended and I invite them as a reward to do some puchups. Regards ken Shinson Tang Soo Do (Newcastle, UK) http://www.shinson-tsd.co.uk Gary Writes: Gee Wiz Ken, the name of my taekwondo school is the Castroville Karate Club. Guess that'll keep you from sleeping tonight. Ok, everyone say "Castroville Karate Club", now do 100 pushups! Ken Writes in response to Bruce: I don't know where you are from but at my school all my instructors our of a high calibre and I would not dare let them open their own school if I thought they were not competent in the art I teach (TSD). Gary writes: Wow, sure wish I had some sort of dictator skills so I could keep anyone I wanted from opening a school. Mine do sign noncompete agreements, but they are free to go anywhere else and open a school, I couldn't stop them if I wanted to. That's called Freedom. Ken writes: I don't and will not profit from my instruction. I don't know about your priorities but mine are work, TSD, family. Luckily all my family are involved in the art so I have great support. Business are for someone to make a profit and profit does not belong the martial arts (my personal view) regards ken (III Dan, Shinson TSD) Gary writes: Every now and then I read something that is so absurd that it must be a joke, something written to get a response from someone, something written to light a fire and stimulate debate. Is that your intent or are you serious? I have a feeling that you are serious, so to that I must say, " Excuse me and forgive me and all the others out there busting our butts running excellent and profitable martial arts schools". I do profit from my martial arts business. I'm not sorry if that offends you. Ken wrote: Business are for someone to make a profit and profit does not belong the martial arts (my personal view) Gary writes: Ken, that is about the most insane/ignorant thing i have ever read. Because I teach for profit I am able to teach full time. Because i teach full time I am able to live what was my hobby, what is my passion. Because I teach full time and make a profit I am able to touch, instruct, reach, help, benefit, 175 students each week. I get to share my passion with lots of people. I personally teach 18 classes a week and love every minute of it. Wow, you put work as a priority before your family. Shame on you. Guess you must make a profit at work so you can provide for your family, which by the way is number 3 on your priority list. The martial arts is my work. By the way, I taught for Free for two years. My hobby grew and finally I had to quit my job because it was getting in the way of my hobby. >> ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 7:16:56 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Prof. Presas Memorial Celebration Forwarding... To whom it might concern, My name is Michael t. Bates from media, pa. I am hosting the memorial = service for Prof. presas on Oct. 6th 2001 at the Valley forge Wyndham = hotel in Wayne, Pa. Should anyone wish to attend or need any info. on this celebration of = the life and times of a wonderful human being, I would be happy to = provide them. sincerely, michael t. bates 610-565-3600 mtbmaa@home.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 7:20:25 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Ho from OH Hello from Ohio... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #510 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.