From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #516 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 7 Sept 2001 Vol 08 : Num 516 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #514 the_dojang: Re: effectiveness of acupuncture for arthritis the_dojang: dizziness the_dojang: Re: Direct Kwan connections the_dojang: RE: Trying to stay in touch the_dojang: Kun Gek Do Re: the_dojang: Testing vs. Progress Assessment the_dojang: Re: Acupuncture Stuff the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 15:48:50 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #514 In a message dated 9/6/01 8:55:05 AM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Wow Gary, looks like I have upset someone and I sincerely apologise. I think there is a little clarification needed here. First - A school is a school and I teach in a school (call me old fashioned if you want but hey I don't care. Second - Regarding profit, I understand there are a few genuine instructors out there who teach and make a living out of it, for them I take my hat off and bow humbly. But the fact remains that there are a lot of "instructors" who are in it for the money and not for the art of for the love of teaching. Yer I get a great salary from work but the fact remains that I don't take any money from what I teach, at the end of the day the school benefits and so do my students. Also I have had first hand experience regarding these so call instructors who say they love the art as long as you pay them a hugh amount of money and get very little if nothing in return. Third - I know my priorities are all screwed up but then again life's a bit like that ain't it. Like I say I am humbly sorry if I ruffled your feathers, it seems that you take your art very passionately and I hope you are blessed with a constant stream on new student. Regards Ken - I still prefer school to club - Nessworthy >> Apology accepted. gary ------------------------------ From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:47:40 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: effectiveness of acupuncture for arthritis In a message dated 9/6/2001 2:36:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << effectiveness of acupuncture for arthritis >> I don't know about acupuncture, perhaps it would help with pain but the question is whether it would affect the degenerative process itself (or inflammatory process if its Rheumatoid). If you have degenerative or osteoarthritis, you should also look into a supplement called SAMe (s-adenosyl methionine). It an over the counter supplement of a substance that the body produces naturally. It is involved in the synthesis of cartilage and of certain neurotransmitters. It is a methyl donor in these synthesis. There is some evidence that SAMe is effective for certain persons with clinical depression and the is a lot of literature on SAMe and arthritis. An entire issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine was devoted to this several years back. SAMe may actually increase the amount of cartilage in affected joints and also increase the amount of synovial fluid. If I were you, I would go to your local health food store and to your library and see what books you can find on SAMe. You can search the Internet on it also. If you do give it a try, I would be curious to hear how it works. Please let me know. Jose' ------------------------------ From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 05:56:52 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: dizziness Dear List Members: I was curious if any of you have noticed a difference in the amount of dizziness students experience when doing spinning kicks. It seems to me that different spinning kicks produce differing levels of dizziness and that each student suffers from it more or less intensely. Does the dizziness ever go away completely? Are some students more susceptible to dizziness than others? Anthony Boyd www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:22:40 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Direct Kwan connections > I am curious how many people still have a direct connection (i.e., "they" > write letters for dan certificates, etc.) to the main Kwan headquarters of > taekwondo in South Korea. No one does it here in Poland. I don`t know of any Kwan related schools in other East European countries. This is I believe mostly because martial arts are usually controlled by the government (the Ministry of Sports), so they are sometimes limited in their freedom to associate with whatever group they would like to. Yes, you can get a grade from any organisation you want, but unless you are not a member of the WTF, ITF or GTF bodies here, you can`t get a national instructor`s licence (the licences are the same in all sports, from archery to swimming and from football to TKD). And of course you can try to teach without it, but if something goes wrong, you`re in deep trouble. Besides: When I started TKD, nobody here knew about any Kwan. Then I trained for a couple of years in the ITF, so I think I would be Oh Do Kwan. Then I joined our national WTF federation and the technical director of this group is from Chung Do Kwan. One of the masters I recpect most, a person I invited to several seminars and a person I learned a lot (but still not enough) from comes from TKD Chang Moo Kwan and in Hapkido, from the Sun Moo Kwan. So what Kwan I am really from ;) ? Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 22:31:00 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Trying to stay in touch Bruce wrote > >>I keep hearing rumors about how their are wonderful traditional >>instructors.... BTW: Can you share with us who the old guard GM are who >>will cooperate in such a rapport? > Bruce. You misunderstood and backed up your own statement. These individuals pass the certificates through themselves to the Kwan. I'm not aware of any who encourage their students to do so directly. That was why I was asking since it seemed rare. D _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Dizzy S." Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 23:30:58 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Kun Gek Do Hiya all. How was everyone's Labor Day? I hope it was safe and fun for everyone :o) Can anyone give me info (websites, general info, ect) on Kun Gek Do? I found one of my instructors (Mr. Kim) from my previous school. I quit because the master instructor was a....... (long story). Mr. Kim left because of the same reason I did, and started his own school. The style is Kun Gek Do. I know it's very similar to TSD, because I sat in on a coupla classes. KGD uses some forms from TSD, but there's ones they mixed up in between the TSD forms that I didn't know (except the first one from previous training in KGD). The same goes for the one-steps and self defence (which was lacking in the old school!). I know KGD is not popular at all. But any info will be helpful. Thanks in advance. Tang Soo! Dizzy www.imahq.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Erik Kluzek Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 22:20:51 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Testing vs. Progress Assessment On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Brian Myers wrote: > 1) What system of student assessment do you prefer, Formalized Testings > (used by most major MA org.) or individual progress based promotions? > > 2) What are the benefits/downfalls of Formalized Testings? > > 3) What are benefits/downfalls of individual progress based promotion? > Well first of all I have to say that almost all of my experience is with formalized testings. I also want to point out that the success of either is going to be primarily dependent on the instructor more so than the system itself. But, that having been said -- I think the advantages of formalized testings far exceed the disadvantages. On the same token, when I ask a student to test I only have them test when they've essentially completed the "individual progress promotion" that you give above. I don't have students test that I feel aren't ready -- period. For that matter one of my goals now is to also have the student feel they are ready as well. I want them to feel good about their test and realize they are worthy of the rank. Sometimes, students test before they feel they are ready and this becomes a mental roadblock. Ussually, this means the student is putting standards that are too high for the level they are testing for. > I have been a student of both methods, the ATA uses Formalized testing, and > my Aiki-Jutsu instructor used the individual approach. While I can somewhat > understand the idea behind adding a little pressure at "testing" and > therefore making the "action under pressure" more realistic, I think this > system fails the students in a couple of ways. First, in most systems that > use the Formal Testings, a student is then limited in the techniques he or > she is taught at any particular rank. This does not seem to be the case in > the individual system. Also, because the students know that they are not > being evaluated at every practice they may tend to "slack off" and adopt a > "well atleast I showed up." attitude. In the individual system each student > would seem to be more motivated to put 110% into every practice, and really > pay attention during every session. > The motivation problem can happen in either case. In my experience though when a test is coming up -- students put a lot more effort into class. They practice on their own, they come to more classes, they work harder and they ask questions and get help on different issues. On the other side of the fence I've recently started Aikido and I've been asked to participate in my first test. Although, I understand the game very well what has it made me do -- practice more, pay attention more, go to extra classes and in general work a lot harder than I would've without a test coming up. Everyone, wants to do their best on the test -- and not look like a fool. There are some other advantages to formalized testings. In getting students ready for a test -- you look at them critically and correct errors or shortcomings that you see. This happens again at the test itself. Also the test allows you a chance to really look critically at each student. Even if there are lots of people testing it's always fewer people testing than the entire class. Testing gives me a chance to correct errors in the students or oversights in my teaching ("well I didn't teach you this -- but you should do it this way"). :^) Yes, it does happen and yes it is embarressing. But, without a formal test -- I wouldn't have caught problems like that. The formalized test does concentrate on the testing curiculum for the given level. But, this doesn't mean that the student can't have begun learning other things -- nor does it necissarily mean they couldn't even use it on their test (in free-sparring for example). In reality even with a formal test there is quite a bit of variation and different people are going to have different strengths and weaknesses. If it balances out pretty well it's not a problem. Another advantage of formal tests is that students can learn from their mistakes. After screwing up on a test -- you are really motivated to get it right the next time. This happens in class too -- but the motivation just isn't quite to the same level. Finally, another advantage is that it helps students to "own" the rank. When I hear students talk about individual promotion -- many times they are suprised it happened and feel like they needed to do more to earn it. The formal test helps you to prepare mentally beforehand to earn the rank and the test itself helps you to feel you earned it. Again the disadvanteges to either one depends more on how it's handled. With too much emphasis on the formalized test -- you can turn into a belt factory with the only criteria being the students time in rank. This would be extremely demotivating to have rank given out -- whether you put in the effort or not. If you did individual promotion, but announced to students beforehand that they were "on deck" so to speak -- so they would be motivated to work harder to advance. It would motivate them to put extra effort in, and given them a chance to prepare mentally. Ceremonies and rituals are still important as well so without a formal test -- you would still want to have something special happen when someone advances. Another potential disadvantage to formal tests is when students test and just aren't ready -- or they are so nervous they just can't handle it. Or when students are unprepared -- they are asked to do something they didn't know or didn't expect. You handle this by having them test only when they are ready, and you make the expectations clear. The nerves part gives you a chance to teach them how to handle anxiety and overcome it -- something we really should be able to help students with. I'm not really answering the question the way Brian posed it -- but I want to point out that the advanteges and disadavantges of either depends more on how the instructor handles it than either system. I think there are a lot of things like that the advantage/disadvantage of any training methodology depends more on how the instructor handles it than on the methodology in and of itself. Insert almost anything into "methodology" -- forms, sparring, kicking what have you. There are ways at taking a sound methodology and getting poor results or from taking methodology that has some flaws and make it work. Of course we go the furtherest if we are making the best of sound methods. Anyway, now I'm way off topic... Erik Kluzek, (CGD at NCAR) National Center for Atmospheric Research Boulder CO, (off) (303)497-1326 (fax) (303)497-1324 - --------- Home page and public PGP key--------------- http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/~erik !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: BK4Leg@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 00:28:28 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Acupuncture Stuff I've had acupuncture to address muscle spasm issues, and felt improvement after first visit,a nd cured after three treatments. An MD had wanted me to be on muscle relaxants for several weeks; not really good if you want to be able to drive and such. The acupuncturist, trained in Beijing, also addressed other health issues with a combination of acupuncture and herbal treatments. I've also had my horses treated with acupuncture, given by vets certified in acupuncture. Mostly very successful. this was used to help treat some of the horses on the US Equestrian Team at the Sydney Olympics. Under competition rules, the available drug treatments, even for simple anti-inflammatories, are extremely limited. Bernie noo yawk siddy ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 7:24:50 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #516 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.