From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #547 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 25 Sept 2001 Vol 08 : Num 547 In this issue: the_dojang: guarding the head the_dojang: November Seminar the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #546 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #545 the_dojang: Re: statement the_dojang: Economics 101 the_dojang: Terrorism & Violence the_dojang: off topic the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerseyj Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: guarding the head > > Also like to comment on "keeping the hands up"... Someone noted that some TKD folks > > let their hands/arms hang (ala Mohammed Ali) when sparring. That is the quickest way I > > know (leastways in our dojang) to get slapped up side the head. TKD rules notwithstanding > > we strongly emphasis guarding the head.... I've never understood the point of letting > > the hands drop in sparring, even Olympic style, because in any style sparring the head is > > still a target, just different weapons attacking it (hands VS. feet). > > LOL! I'm constantly reminding my students to keep their guard up. I started asking out loud why they were guarding their butt instead of their head. As soon as I did, the hands started coming up. I've seen folks with longer than average torso's keep their arms down to their sides while sparring to protect their ribs. May or may not work, but at least it's got some sense behind the concept! Jerry ------------------------------ From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:39:05 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: November Seminar Bruce: As you have been to many of the 3 day seminars in Jackson you will see that Master West's one day workshops work along the same format. A different category of techniques every hour with a break in between. The only difference is that instead of folks like myself teaching the classes along with Master West, he teaches all the classes. Give him a call, I am sure that my teacher will be happy to tell you what is on the agenda! BTW - We will be doing the same thing here when you come down in a few weeks. In fact, Mr. New, the host for 11/10/01 may be joining us as well as others. I am going as far as making it a mini-workshop open to the public and anyone in the Midwest. If anyone is interested in attending a early-mid October hapkido workshop just outside of Cincinnati, just let me know! Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: Richard Zaruba Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:16:20 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #546 > Also like to comment on "keeping the hands up"... Someone noted that some TKD folks > let their hands/arms hang (ala Mohammed Ali) when sparring. That is the quickest way I > know (leastways in our dojang) to get slapped up side the head. TKD rules notwithstanding > we strongly emphasis guarding the head.... I've never understood the point of letting > the hands drop in sparring, even Olympic style, because in any style sparring the head is > still a target, just different weapons attacking it (hands VS. feet). I found a great way to get my students to keep their hands up during kicking. I have about ten medicine balls weighing from 9 to 18 pounds. If they drop their hands twice they get to hold the medicine ball between their elbows while they finish the kicks. It seems to work really well. :-) Rich _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba Department of Anatomy & Cell Biology University of North Dakota School of Medicine 501 North Columbia Road P.O. Box 9037 Grand Forks, ND 58202-9037 zaruba@medicine.nodak.edu 701.777.3952 office 701.777.2576 lab 701.777.2477 fax ------------------------------ From: Jesse Segovia Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:47:43 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #545 "Meghan Gardner" wrote: > As much > as our government may have brought this upon us by (in my not-so-humble > opinion) sticking its fingers into other nation's conflicts for the sole > reason of protecting oil interests, this attack was uncalled for. So because we had oil interests in Kuwait, should this mean we should not have honored our ally who called out to us in their moment of need? I don't understand how we say 'yes, we want to help you, but we have economic interest in this matter, so we have to disqualify ourselves from sticking to our commitments. You're on your own.' I know many Americans feel as you do, but I don't understand how this is a correct or honorable approach to international relations. > The sadness of this whole thing is, however, that our government will > continue to tromp upon various cultures who control the output of oil and, > as such, terrorism will not end. > ... > However, we cannot > take away their Justification if we do not provide them with Alternatives to > terrorism. I'm sorry, but I find these two points at least apparently contradictory. Many critics of America decry our 'arrogant' foreign policy and our tendency to play world copy, but then turn around and say we're somehow responsible for all the world's evils and we have to do our best to fix them. Unfortunately, the vast majority of suffering in this world is caused by the corruption and ineptitude of the local leaders of those doing the suffering. We do what we can, we give aid and assistance to these governments, but they usually continue in their greed and incompetence, and their people continue suffering. Is this the fault of the US? Jesse ------------------------------ From: Jesse Segovia Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:15:45 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: statement Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov wrote: > Perhaps when we are done with this discussion maybe we could > have a dialogue regarding how rape victims need to be held accountable for > their violation for the way that they dress or previous sexual activity. Could you please explain this remark? Who is the rapist and who is the victim? I hope you're not one of those folks who always seeks to blame America first. > ... is it simply easier to wave the flag rather than admit to > Americas' mistakes in foreign policy? Like any human endeavor, the American government has made mistakes. Sometimes we back the wrong horses, sometimes we strengthen our enemies. Churchill said the worst thing about opposing communism is the allies you have to make. But the only way to keep from making mistakes is to stay out of the game and let your enemies do what they will. Is that what you're proposing? > 1.) Commerce and Capitalism are driven by a differential between "have" and > "have nots." This is a meaningless, peripheral observation about capitalism that has nothing to do with how it actually works. Economics is driven by one person or group of people meeting the needs of another. If everyone on the planet had a million bucks, we would still need to eat, to live in homes, to get to work, we'd still want to enjoy life as we choose, etc. A loaf of bread might have to cost a hundred bucks, but there would still be a price at which someone is motivated to bake it, and people who like bread are able to afford it. BTW, you're aware your comment is pure Marxist theory, right? > the extremely poor, from their position of hopelessness and > powerlessness see the exploitive opulance of the extremely rich frustration, > jealousey and fear produce anger and violence. Ah, so the helpless poor just can't help themselves. They don't have the self-control or the intelligence; they just go all to pieces, huh? Sorry, but there are people living in less-than-ideal circumstances all over the planet who don't commandeer commercial aircraft and murder innocent thousands. American liberals teach us it's overcrowding and poverty that creates crime, and yet in parts of the world FAR more crowded and FAR poorer than American inner-cities, crime rates are a tiny fraction of those in the US. Sorry, but people, even terrorists, have responsibility for their actions. > 2.) You may be a fighter--- but you are no warrior. Why the personal attack here? > Perhaps you will explain to me who > the US is that we can retreat behind our oceans and leisurely digest the > pain and suffering in the World in 30-minute news programs each evening. Ah, so American IS the world's policeman, responsible for the comfort of everyone on the planet. With responsibility comes authority. Are you ready to have American assert that authority, and REALLY start telling everyone how to live? Nah, you probably think if we just eat and consume a little less, this will somehow mean more food and resources for the poor, huh? Perhaps you can explain to me how THAT would work. > Whatsmore you may want to ask any number of American corporations what their > part was in furnishing materials to the Germans through South America in WW > II Good point, but this is a charge against individual corporations, and not commerce or America as a whole. If you know of an economic system that can feed and clothe more people than capitalism, I'd like to hear it. > Did you really think > that we can live at this level of affluence in this country and not do it at > a price to others around the world? Nonsense! Economics is NOT a zero-sum game. If I start a company and fill a need or do it better than the competition, not only do I make life better for my customer, but I have fed myself and my family, and allowed those now working for me to do the same. The idea that every VCR or sports shoe used in an American home comes at the expense of someone in the third world is just plain fallacy. The workers assembling those VCRs and sports shoes would much rather be working in those factories than not. Who are we to tell them they're wrong? > Did you think this practice occurred by > accident and was not a matter of policy driven by American corporations? Did > you think someone, somewhere would NOT hold us accountable for our > violations? If they hadn't, it sounds like you would. > 3.) The common denominator for all that I have said is summed up in one word > - -- Justice. Bruce, I sincerely hope you are not claiming what the terrorists did in New York and Washington, DC is justice, or in any way justified. Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you. > The day you decided to > train in a martial art THIS is what you were intended to provide This meaning Marxism? Support for terrorists? Anti-Americanism? Sorry but this isn't what I learn in my dojang. > You want "paybacks"-- get in line with the rest of the > short-sighted, flag-waving miscreants. This is offensive and what I'd consider expected rhetoric from one of the terrorists. I'm seriously wondering what's behind comments like these. > BTW: If it does come to war-- and a long one--- would you please try to do a > better job of supporting the effort in the long haul? Good point. Unlike some, I don't need a terrible crisis to turn me into a proud, patriotic American, or to support a strong defense, and to support our soldiers. They are what keeps us free and secure. Jesse ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:13:06 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Economics 101 Ray...we're straying WAY off topic here so just say the word, and you won't hear another peep out of me in regards to this and similar topics. Having said that...I'd like to address some comments that were made by Mr. Bruce Sims. Trust me when I say that he and I are most likely on opposing spectrums of political/economic theory, and it's my gut instinct to go tearing into battle...proudly waving the flag of free market capitalism in response to his less than subtle attack on much of what I hold in high regard. We'll see where this goes. <> This analysis is superficial at best, and is a tired one used most often by those that think it's possible to write-off capitalism in 20 words or less. The lifeblood of commerce and capitalism is the universal truth of "limited resources", and the plain fact that these resources must be allocated in some shape, form, or fashion. Force is one way to do it...hitting my neighbor over the head with a club, and bringing his mate, children, and property into my fold was a great method a few thousand years ago (and still works in some corners of the globe). Alas, modern man has that sticky "social contract thing" that we try to honor as much as possible (unless your name is Osama bin Laden), and less violent resource allocation systems grew out of such light. Suffice it to say that markets (in all their sundry forms) grew out of the need to allocate scarce resources. As a species, we do not conduct commerce for the sake of commerce itself. If you have a problem with the truth of scarce resources...I suggest you take it up with your respective "God". In the meantime, please don't fault the solution for the problem. In the grand scheme of things, we are all "have nots". Commerce and capitalism provides the means by which to "have something". Anyone with a better system...I believe the gentlemen at Harvard Business School are breathlessly waiting for your dissertation. <> Again, we show no deep understanding of what drives markets at the personal level...and an even larger ignorance as to the nature of man. People do not have to be "goaded" into entering markets and "defiling" themselves through interaction with "evil capitalists". They do so on their own accord because of a very simple and universal law of human behavior...people act in a self-interested manner. Period. I'm sorry, but I go to work everday (the labor market) to help pay off my 30-year mortgage (the financial market) taken out to purchase my 3-bedroom home (the new housing market) which holds my refrigerator (the consumer durables market) which in turn holds my food (the consumer non-durables market) NOT for the good of my fellow man, but because the collection of atoms known as Craig Stovall just can't seem to defy the chemical processes that drive it to act in a manner that is beneficial to it's short-term existance. What a creep that Craig Stovall is! Sorry, but everyone participates in commerce...whether it be a primitive barter system, a state governed and regulated market, or a free and complex capitalist market...BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GET THEIR HANDS ON SCARCE RESOURCES FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. I know this simple fact escapes those that are too busy throwing around "profit" as if it were a dirty word (or thought they were too good to take a business course in college), but the truth remains the same. And for those that get their stomachs turned over the fact that man acts principally in a self-interested manner...I urge you once again to take that issue up with whatever higher power you seek to commune with when you hit your knees tonight. I'm confident that "he" made the right design decision, but you may need further convincing. <> Gee this sounds familiar...oh, it's coming back...yes, I remember it now. The bourgoisse, the proletariat, the revolt of the working class, the idea that labor is the one true source of all value. Yes, this can all be found in an over-hyped tome that could very well be titled, "Another Book That Craig Read in His Freshman Year of College When He Should Have Been Piss Drunk". Yes, many a mind have been poisoned by this obscure Austrian "economist" who never worked a day in his life, and rejected logical thought almost as passionately as he rejected the use of soap and water. In truth, his predictions never came true, any and all socio-political systems based upon his ideas have failed miserably, and "laissez faire" reigns supreme. Brucie, it makes no difference to me if you seek comfort in trying to justify the actions of a handful of religious fanatics as if they somehow represented the collective will of 3 billion underpriveleged humans who's only crime is that their genetic code wasn't passed to them within the confines of the U.S. border or Western European continent and therefore don't enjoy the wonders of cable television and microwave dinners. It also makes no difference to me that you choose to construct a mythical, monolithic image of "Corporate America" that is hellbent on subjugating anyone who lives outside the U.S. or Europe to their repressive (and downright naughty) socio/political/economic policies...much in the same way that the less informed among us to seek to construct a mythical, monolithic image of "Islam" that is hellbent on murdering every pale-faced, rednecked American male while at the same time covering our women in yards of hot fabric and sending our kids away to mosques in order to be "re-educated" in the ways of Allah. In fact, the irony is quite amusing. What DOES make a difference to me is opening an e-mail intended for the communication of martial arts and being exposed to an idiot who has no compunction in using a tragedy of global proportions as an excuse to take a long, hot, verbal bowel movement on everything he sees as being "wrong" with America. Adding insult to injury is the fact that this is coming from a "man" who lives under the same blanket of safety and welfare that he seeks to criticize...in as much as that blanket is provided by the complex interaction of the U.S. Government, America's key economic entities/institutions, and it's millions of hard working citizens. Of course, this wouldn't make much sense to someone who probably thinks that Bretton-Woods was the biggest freemason gathering in the history of mankind, or believes the fact that Mercedes manufacturing a u-joint that ended up on a gas chamber constitutes a global conspiracy. Try reading something a little more reputable than Mother Jones for a change...I can smell your brain pickling from over here. <> How dare you, sir. How DARE you! That's not "us" laying at the bottom of a 100 foot pile of rubble. That's not "us" crying because Mommy didn't make it home from work. That's not "us" who's last phone conversation with their wife involved hearing her scream, "I see buildings...OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD!!!" What "account" was brought into balance on September 11th? What "wrongs" were righted by the killing of 6,000+ INNOCENT men, women, and children? Citizens of this country...citizens of the WORLD! Train that ability to see "the big picture" that you're so desperately trying to flaunt, and answer those questions. I'm confident that your little adolescent conspiracy theories will soon fade away. Perhaps then you can see the truth...6,000 people that were just trying to get by in life...6,000 people that worked for those same "evil corporations" in order to provide a better life for themelves...6,000 people that will never again see the light of day. Gone...for nothing more than political rantings and religious fairy tales. Capitalism had nothing to do with it. Sad...but not quite as sad as you. Craig Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:26:22 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Terrorism & Violence Dear Ms. Gardner and others, There is no need to look to our enemy's for rationales on how we brought this upon ourselves. Buying oil should not make us expendable. Supporting friendly governments should not make us expendable. Encouraging stability in a region should not make us expendable. Not recognizing Belligerent Theocratic governments should not make us expendable. Condemning terrorism should not make us expendable. I have heard a lot lately about how violence is not the answer - News Bulletin people TOOOOOO LATE!!!!!!!!! We were using diplomacy, influence, intelligence, and negotiation when 6000 Americans were were flattened by fanatics. In case you haven't heard - ALL AMERICANS ARE SANCTIONED TARGETS!!!!! There is no requirement to feel good about retaliation & war. There is no need to demonize the enemy. The time has come to kill, because to not do so is suicide. If we survive we can regret. Getting in the WAY, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:03:17 PDT Subject: the_dojang: off topic Folks, Again we've strayed way off topic. Sorry that I didn't filter out a couple of posts the last 36 hours, but I had a some minor surgery yesterday and am just now starting to care much about anything. Thanks for taking the off topic discussions offline. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:04:29 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #547 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.