From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #549 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 26 Sept 2001 Vol 08 : Num 549 In this issue: the_dojang: "Snap Back" on Kicks the_dojang: Re: G'day, Nat the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #548 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #548 the_dojang: TKD Form Speed the_dojang: hapkido teachers the_dojang: RE: Recoiling kicks the_dojang: Re: Recoiling the_dojang: An incredible site of interest to MA's and anyone else, really the_dojang: Ji Han Hae Seminar the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Gassiot" Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:09:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: "Snap Back" on Kicks Cory, With the latest posting run on ATA, I'm a little gunshy about posting, but here goes, (run on sentence continues) with that said this can really only be applied to my school and three specific instructors that I've had. From White belt on, different instructors have stressed the importance of snaping back your kick, they call it "rechamber". This is also stressed for multiple kicks, a low/high or high/low for example. Most kicks are taught on a 4 count, 1 - lift leg and chamber, 2 - kick, 3 - rechamber, 4 - place foot back down. I think this is because if you are teaching multiple kicks you can go from 3 back to 2 and folks get an easier mental picture. Another note on kicks ATA style, they don't use the same terms as most styles. A number one front kick is a snap kick with the front leg. A number two front kick is a front snap kick with the back leg. A number three is a step and a kick with the back leg, which was originally in the front. A number four is, you guessed it, two steps, or a step back and a kick with the leg that was originally in the back. Number 3 and 4 kicks work better when done as a jump kick. Hope this helps, DREW "Actually it's a buck and a quarter, quarter staff." ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 10:40:12 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: G'day, Nat Dear Nat: Nice post. Short of getting you cloned, or maybe getting you to send a transfusion to several of our practitioners here, I suppose I will have to hold you up as a stellar example of what I think Hapkido specifically and MA in general are about. Who do you train under and what is his affiliation? Seems like there are more than a few contributers from Oz that seem to have their stuff together. Must be the result of being stuck on an island together and having to work things out among yourselves. Wouldn't mind having that cloned as well. :-). Does your teacher spend any time on weapons work? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Dave Weller Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:45:30 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #548 >From: Stickfighter27@cs.com (Cory) posted this: > >Thiers never been an emphasis on "snaping" or "recoiling" kicks, such as my >1st Karate instructor would emphasise on every kicking technique that he ever >taught. >No matter the kick he would always say "recoil that kick". "Get it back home >faster than you put it out there." > >I have sparred students that would kick and just leave it hanging it would be >so easy to trap or catch these kicks. >I was curious to how many instructors or students for that matter teach or >have been taught this? And would also like an honest answer from those who >have never heard this or been taught this. Simply because I've noticed it >in alot of dojo/dojangs in my training areas. > >Thanks everyone >Cory >nidan karate/tkd Having been landed on my head by senior students many times due to a leg "left hanging" I can say that, at least in our little Dojang, recoiling the kick is emphasized both in sparring and in floor work. Sometimes the instructor will attempt to grab the leg during floor work. Students are constantly reminded to "get it back!!" Perhaps the reason you see this in some TKD students is an over-emphasis on olympic style sparring where grabbing the leg is Verbotten. On the street you can bet your Be-hind the bad guy will grab your leg and flip you upsidedown if you leave it there for him. just my 2 cents. WRT to the comments on differences in training post 9-11, I would say not much has changed at our school. I have been working a bit longer on self defense in my weekly class but we spent a good deal of time on that pre 9-11. If you were training hard before there is not much reason to switch gears midstream IMHO. Not that there aren't new lessons to be incorporated, but if this event is a stimulus for people to train harder, longer and more realistically that is positive. have a groovy day. WRT dave weller student wtf tkd "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: innae@netexpress.net Date: 26 Sep 2001 12:10:01 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #548 Thiers never been an emphasis on "snaping" or "recoiling" kicks, such as my1st Karate instructor would emphasise on every kicking technique that he ever taught. No matter the kick he would always say "recoil that kick". "Get it back home faster than you put it out there." Thanks everyone Cory nidan karate/tkd Cory I wish I could have read this before I taught class on monday. I mentioned the same thing to the class that I was teaching. I continually bring this topic up to the students that I teach. My opinion about this is no matter how bad the kick is if you recoil, or rechamber your kick you can always kick again. If they trap your leg you just lost the fight. (That is unless of course you can jump off of your other leg and kick them with it... Which I cant) Thanks for bringing this up Ken Legendre 3rd dan Tae Kwon Do innae@netexpress.net ------------------------------ From: "Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)" Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:42:05 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: TKD Form Speed I have a question for everyone. I have seen in several different schools where forms were performed really fast, (to the point where moves blur into one another) and slow (fast moves with power but tiny pauses between moves). There are some people who can perform forms with tremendous speed and still "snap" (finish one motion with power before beginning the next) each move. It is my opinion that there should be VERY tiny but distinct pauses between moves to show both the stance, intended target(s), and control within the movement(s). Having said all this, what are some of your opinions as to the appropriate and inappropriate speed in which TKD forms should be performed. Brian Woodard ------------------------------ From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:49:30 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: hapkido teachers I read the message below and found it very interesting. In the past 28 or so years I have had 4 teachers in the Korean MA. 3 of them have been Korean nationals and the best by far is the only non-Korean (an American) who I currently study under. I did learn allot when in Korea but it was because of who I was with not where I was. In fact some of the best techniques I learned in Korea were from an Australian. These two I use as an example are not text book teachers. I have seen many hapkidoin of Korean and American nationality who did not even have a grasp of basic motion. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul <<<...By this, one cannot dispute the attitude, culture and philosophies a master from the east brings to the students than someone who teaches almost by text book. This is just my opinion and in the end of the day its what I prefer....>>> ------------------------------ From: "Wallace, John" Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:03:02 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Recoiling kicks The instructors at my dojang use a similar phrase (the strike should come back to guard as quick as it went out). We're taught this for both punches and kicks, exactly for the reason you state: a limb left out, or overcommitted to a strike becomes a target for trapping or destruction. Its a pretty tricky concept, and something that most people seem to take a long time getting down right: if you recoil it too quickly, you rob the strike of its power and if you wait too long you waste energy regaining your balance. We do drills with chest guards where the defender tries to trap the attackers foot to illustrate the principle. It also demonstrates the necessity of combinations in attack..its much harder to trap when the high-commitment attack is part of a sequence of strikes (unless you lead with it!) - -John Wallace 1st gup (pending!), TKD Fremont, CA - ------------------------------------- In The_Dojang-Digest V8 #548, Cory wrote: As I have trained in the martial arts for several years 15 to be exact and have had a few instructors, and have participated in many different schools thru sparring or just been a special guest or what not.. Thiers never been an emphasis on "snaping" or "recoiling" kicks, such as my 1st Karate instructor would emphasise on every kicking technique that he ever taught. No matter the kick he would always say "recoil that kick". "Get it back home faster than you put it out there." ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:26:37 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Recoiling In a message dated 9/26/2001 8:43:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << No matter the kick he would always say "recoil that kick". "Get it back home faster than you put it out there." >> I was always taught to recoil it back fast ... in order to get another kick out there ... you would have to. I hate it when I see "limp kicks" ... looks sloppy to me. And yes, you throw a limp kick at us and we would trap it and take you down ! Just my 2 cents .... Illona ------------------------------ From: Jerry Lynde Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:32:25 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: An incredible site of interest to MA's and anyone else, really Take a moment and give this a peek. The website is owned by Marc MacYoung and Dianna Gordon MacYoung. Time well spent if you ask me. (The site is in the process of a remodel, and I asked Dianna if it was ok to link y'all to the new stuff, but it wasn't. So in the meantime check out the digs!) http://www.diac.com/~dgordon/ Jer ------------------------------ From: RDNHJMS@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:50:45 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Ji Han Hae Seminar We are still on for Dojunim Ji's seminar on November 10-11 here in Tampa. We are going to have a pretty good group this time, folks from Europe and Mexico will attend. Please feel free to contact me for further information. V/R, Rick Nabors ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:54:58 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #549 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.