From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #558 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 3 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 558 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! the_dojang: Re:Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! the_dojang: fyi, the eskrima list [none] the_dojang: Sport TKD calendar the_dojang: Re: Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! the_dojang: Breaking board holder the_dojang: RE: What Would You Say? the_dojang: hapkido in the Midwest the_dojang: Re: Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! the_dojang: RE: Punching Stuff the_dojang: Re: Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! Re: the_dojang: RE: jabs the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 01:08:38 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! Steven. They have obviously been brain-washed already, why confuse them by trying to be rational and discuss the history of Tang Soo Do/Tae Soo Do/Tae Kwon Do/Tae Kwon-Do or Taekwondo, and/or the various pivotal people in the art besides their Kwan Jang!? Just smile, nod sadly, and ask them what "real" means to them. If they start pontificating only the party line, tell them your late for your ballerina class and leave! Or, grin and bear it! Dana Steven wrote: >What would you say, if a person says that you are not practicing/studying real TKD because it is not I.T.F. TKD?? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: bredfield Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 21:11:04 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re:Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! <<> I would say that this person must train in a I.T.F. school : ) and is very loyal but not broad minded? If I swim in a river and you swim in a lake, can we both swim? Bernard ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 19:55:28 PDT Subject: the_dojang: fyi, the eskrima list fyi, info on one of our other lists... Ray ========================================== Do you practice Eskrima/Kali/Arnis or some other Filipino martial art? If so, why not join the Filipino martial arts e-mail distribution list, the premier internet discussion forum devoted to the FMAs. Eskrima-Digest is a ~1200 member e-mail distribution list for the respectful discussion of the Filipino martial arts, for those wheresoever dispersed around the globe. 7+ years of continuous operation. The list is managed by "Majordomo". To subscribe to eskrima-digest send e-mail to the address; majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com with subscribe eskrima-digest in the BODY of the message, top line and left justified (not in the subject line). Also, make sure your e-mail is not in HTML format, use 'Plain Text' if using Outlook or Outlook Express or send via aolmail.aol.com if you're using AOL 6.0. Brought to you by http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 21:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] Greetings All, I know that this is off topic and apologize for it, but felt that this may be something that members may be interested in. Today I was at ground zero. There are no words to describe what I saw. Surely, by this time, you have seen the photos of the site. The destruction is even more massive than the photos you saw. What was interesting is not the destruction, (the site is still smoldering enough to shroud lower Manhattan in smoke) but the process of "restoring" normalcy. At the site, there are the crews, the red cross volunteers, and of course large construction equipment. At the same time as the construction equipment goes about it's business, window washers are cleaning the buildings. It seems that the dust is caked an inch thick. The damage seemed very capricious. In some buildings, the side facing the WTC had every single window blown in. The sides not facing the blast seemed undamaged. Other buildings had very definite scorching. Salvage trucks seem to scurry to and fro. The neighborhoods surrounding the site looked surreal, very much the way that post apocalyptic scenes are portrayed in the movies. Gardens that were tended weeks ago, that are still not over grown. Benches that there is no one around to sit on, Chess tables, that no one plays one, delis selling food, but there is no one there to buy it. What was once a very busy area is now desolate in mid day. The crews and volunteers work in silence. In over an hour, I heard not a word, although the volunteers and workers were plainly visible. When I was there, the red cross was escorting civilians through the site. While I do not know who they are, from the look of them, they appeared to be survivors of those who were killed or missing. Each looked extremely dispirited. There is a very high police and military presence. Every possible enforcement agency is on site, even Federal Park Rangers. Each time you pass a checkpoint, you have to show photo id. There is nothing that you can do to prepare for the enormity of the site, even three weeks later. G-d Bless the workers and the volunteers; those who were lost, and those who are left behind to put together the pieces; pray for the wisdom of our leaders, and the well being of those who have volunteered to defend this country from enemies without and within, pray for a quick and decisive end so that no further acts may be perpetrated. And that is the report from Ground Zero. Neal Konecky ===== Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty. John F. Kennedy (1917-1963) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 22:00:17 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Sport TKD calendar The_Dojang's calendar of Sport Taekwondo Events October 2, 2001 http://www.martialartsresource.com Dates and locations subject to change. 2001 Gold Cup 2001 Oct 6 Cincinnati, Ohio 15th US Martial Arts Champs Oct 6 Youngstown, Ohio European Technical Champs Oct 6-7 Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany 2nd Irish Open Oct 7 Dublin, Ireland International TKD Brussels Oct 13-14 Brussels, Belgium Captain's Cup Challenge Oct 20 College Park, Maryland Silicon Valley Open TKD Oct 20 San Jose, California 21st Fort Worth TKD Champs Oct 20-21 Fort Worth, Texas AAU Friendship Tourny Oct 21 San Francisco, California 26th National Collegiate Oct 26-27 Austin, Texas Campeonato de Espana Oct 27-28 Madrid, Spain Austrailian Capitol Open Oct 27 Canberra, Austrailia GTC Invitational Oct 27 Gahanna, Ohio Oakmasd Annual TKD Champs Oct 27 Fort Belvior, Virginia Ultimate Open Oct 28 Barnsley, Ireland PATU Sr. Training Camp Oct 28-Nov 2 Cheju City, Korea 15th World TKD Champs & 8th Women's World TKD Champs Nov 1-7 Cheju City, Korea AAU TKD US National Champs Nov 1-4 Orlando, Florida Vermont Open Dec 8 Marshfield, Vermont 18th Western US International Nov 10 Las Vegas, Nevada Boise State Nov 10 Boise, ID ITF TKD Impact Open Nov 10-11 West Sussex, England Toulouse Open Nov 17-18 Toulouse, France Victorian Seniors Nov 25 Melbourne, Austrailia Ultimate Childrens Open Nov 25 Doncaster, Ireland 7th Central American Games Nov 30-Dec 3 Guatemala City, Guatemala Victorian Juniors Dec 2 Melbourne, Austrailia International Boekooltrofee Dec 8 Oldenzaal, Netherlands Yim's TKD Champs Dec 8 Dallas, Texas 2002 Ohio Seniors Jan 16 Cleveland, Ohio US Open TKD Champs Feb 18-24 Orlando, Florida Dutch Open March 11-12 Eindhoven, Netherlands ITF Black Eagle International March 16-17 Tampere, Finland 15th Asian TKD Champ April 4 Amman, Jordan 7th South American Games April 4-14 Cordoba, Argentina EuroCup for teams May Spain 14th European Senior TKD Champs May 2-5 Ankara, Turkey USTU National TKD Champs May 22-26 Detroit, Michigan 7th World Univ TKD Champs June 11-14 Berkeley, California USTU Junior Olympic TKD June 30-July 6 Minneapolis, Minnesota National AAU TKD Champs July 3-6 Greensboro, North Carolina 14th Asian Games Sept 29-Oct 4 Pusan, Korea 19th Central American & Caribbean Nov San Salvador, El Salvador 13th Pan American TKD Champ Nov Ecuador 2003 11th Pan Arab Games Algeria 8th All Africa Games Abuja, Nigeria European Junior TKD Champs May Athens, Greece 14th Pan American Games Santo Domingo, Dominican Rep 3rd World Military Games Aug USA 22nd World University Games Aug Taegu, Korea 22nd Southeast Asian Games Oct HoChiMinh City, Vietnam Olypimc TKD Test Event Nov Athens, Greece 2004 European Senior TKD Champs May 4-9 Lillehammer, Norway Olympic Games Aug 15 Athens, Greece Ray Terry ------------------------------ From: "Jon David Payne" Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 01:01:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! >>Hello, What would you say, if a person says that you are not practicing/studying real TKD because it is not I.T.F. TKD?? Steven M. Alagna>> If it was in a online forum such as this I would think I was dealing with a troll and move on to another thread without saying anything. If it were said in person I would move on to another conversation with a more intelligent person. We don't normally play my TKD is better than your TKD, although we have played it with Hapkido. Jon David Payne ------------------------------ From: Nick McKenna Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 08:25:08 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Breaking board holder Dear All I have a re-breakable board at home, but I lack a collection of dan grades to hold it for me!! Could anyone suggest a type of board holder that I could use and a place to get one? Also, I am training with a makiwara, but currently I place it on the ground to hit it. I have heard that mounting on a house exterior wall (e.g. a brick wall) can cause damage to the wall long-term. Does anyone have any comments on this? Thanks for you help! Nick. - ----------------------------- Nick McKenna 1st Dan Johnson's Tang Soo Do http://www.johnsonskarate.com *************************************************************** The contents of this Email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. The views stated herein do not necessarily represent the view of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this Email you may not copy, forward, disclose or otherwise use it or any part of it in any form whatsoever. If you have received this mail in error please Email the sender. *************************************************************** RS Components Ltd. ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 07:29:24 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: What Would You Say? Steven, I would say that the person falls into one of a couple of catagories, or possibly both. 1) Does not have a great deal of experience in the martial arts 2) Believes too much egotistical self-promotion hype Danny Dunn <<<<<<>>>>>>> ------------------------------ From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 08:54:02 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: hapkido in the Midwest We will be having a hapkido workshop at the Hapkido Self Defense Center in Harrison, Ohio (outside of Cincinnati) on Saturday October 13, 2001 from 10:00 am - 3:00 pm. This workshop is open to all styles and rank. The workshop will be conducted in the tradition of my teacher, Master J. R. West. Several members of this group will be attending and we look forward to many other members of this group attending. For more information, please call 513-202-0949 or email hkd@fuse.net. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: Brian Myers Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 08:04:09 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! "What would you say, if a person says that you are not practicing/studying real TKD because it is not I.T.F. TKD?? Steven M. Alagna" Steven, You have asked one of my favorite questions for debate! My first, and most consistant, reaction is "Who cares!". I have been in this debate with many a person, from all sorts of martial arts, not just I.T.F. or any one of the many other TKD factions. I always approach the question in this manner. First question should be "What art form do you practice?". If the person answers with one word, they have passed the first test of a true martial artist, humility. Those who worry about which group they belong to, which of the hundreds of hyung they study, and who's version of the art is "better" or "the real TKD" have forgotten that a martial artist should be humble in their practice - it keeps one's mouth from writing checks one's ass can't cash! If they get this step right, the next question is "And what do you think of the form you study?". If they answer with something like "It has it's strengths, but there are areas that seem weak..." then they have displayed another important attribute of a good martial artist, respect. They have shown understanding that all forms have strengths and weaknesses and that every martial art form and it's practitioners should be respected for what they are, follow journymen (and women) on THE WAY. The next question goes right to the heart of their personal Honor Code. "What about Brand X Martial Art, do you think they are real fighters?" Here you can fill in any martial art you would like, including the many different factions of TKD. THe reason I like to ask this question is to see if they are willing to "badmouth" the hard work and dedication of others. If they truely understand the idea of being honorable they will not say anything derogatory about another art or it's practitioners, understanding that they work just as hard at learning their art as you do yours. The last question need not be asked, because they answered it with their question. They obviously have forgotten the idea of courtesy, if they are willing to insult anyone simply because they have the need to feel superior. Understand, as many of you on the DD know, I am a student of TKD. I was, and started out as a student of the ATA. Here recently I have fallen away from the ATA, mostly for reasons that have nothing to do with the form they teach. I have begun researching and attempting to learn some of the other Korean art forms as well as studying Tai Ch'i Ch'uan and Japanese Iaido. I realized that I was missing a great deal of important ideas and material by limiting my study to just one form. I now consider myself a student of Martial Arts - no form affiliation should be required. As for the question of "Which TKD is the real one?" - they all have the same roots and their various histories have led them all to have different strengths and weaknesses. Yours in the Martial Spirit, Brian Myers ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 08:37:01 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Punching Stuff Ray and Alain: "...With regard to Dempsey's (and others) advocacy for striking with the last three knuckles, how is it that they avoid the common "boxer fracture" of the fourth metacarpal? Perhaps its a legend, but the EMT and emergency room nurse I work out with say that they can immediately tell when someone's broken hand is from brawling by the characteristic break that a poorly trained puncher sustains...." If I could coat-tail on Johns' question..... The SABAKI Net had quite a discussion about the tendency of some schools/styles to allow (perhaps even encourage) raising the rear ankle and an attendent pivot of the foot on the ball to produce additonal thrust to the punch. Not being experienced in Boxing or familiar with Dempseys' material I would interested to hear anyones' views on this biomechanic. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 08:10:24 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Will the Real TKD Please Stand Up! > What would you say, if a person says that you are not practicing/studying > real TKD because it is not I.T.F. TKD?? I`d say "we`ll be glad to see you in our dojang for a free class" ;) and I still have some interesting videos to show (Korean Tigers etc.)... Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 8:01:09 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: jabs > With regard to Dempsey's (and others) advocacy for striking with the last > three knuckles, how is it that they avoid the common "boxer fracture" of the > fourth metacarpal? Perhaps its a legend, but the EMT and emergency room > nurse I work out with say that they can immediately tell when someone's > broken hand is from brawling by the characteristic break that a poorly > trained puncher sustains. (I know that Dempsey's bare-knuckle credentials > are solid...there's still a disparity between what I hear regarding the > consequences of punching that way). I'd have to check his book again to sense if he used the three-knuckle punch with -and- w/o gloves. If he used it w/o gloves I'd bet he either did break his hand at times, or perhaps he had naturally heavy/thick metacarpals. ??? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 8:02:26 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #558 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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