From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #566 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 10 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 566 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Sacramento - The Gathering the_dojang: Bill "Superfoot" Wallace Seminar-by Adam Gibson Re: the_dojang: Knife defenses Re: the_dojang: Knife defense/Weapons training/reaction time the_dojang: knife/OC/forms stuff/group question the_dojang: Hapkido Dojang in Washington D.C.? the_dojang: RE: Hyung the_dojang: RE: Form Stuff the_dojang: form speeds the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FGS & KVF Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 16:45:09 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sacramento - The Gathering Recently, there was a weekend long event that brought MA from all over the US and Canada and from all sorts of different styles. It was an amazing event. It is held annually and was in San diego last year, and Chicago next year. It is hosted usually by Honshi Bruce Jutnik, a Kosho Ryu and arnis practictioner. In these times of MA conflicts and "mine is better than yours", it was refreshing to meet and learn from people who were there to empty their cups and give back as well. I learned a lot and was excited all over again about MA. Each art had at least one instructor at that event that taught a few principles to the eager participants. No one was badmouthing any style or person. At the end of the weekend, it was obvious that the concepts taught were applicable to all MA, not just one. We are all the same with different slants. And it was quite helpful having new slants to old concepts. If you have a chance to go, it is an event worth attending! Spunky ------------------------------ From: "Adam Gibson" Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:34:35 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Bill "Superfoot" Wallace Seminar-by Adam Gibson Hi All, I believe that my last e-mail to the discussion group regarding the upcoming Bill Walllace Seminar may have been mis-understood by some WTF stylists. I am a WTF Stylist myself and was only trying to peak some interest in other WTF stylists who solely rely on rear-leg sparring. The best WTF fighters know how to use both lead and rear-leg techniques. In boxing, the boxer needs his jab to set up his rear hand. Mr. Wallace is the master's master of lead-leg sparring, but I would never say that you cannot learn from a teacher who predominately uses rear-leg sparring. There are awesome teachers in that style as well. I've trained with them. We all have our contribution to the martial arts world as Instructors, but if something new comes alongs and scares you or confuses you, my advice is to embrace it to the fullest, so that you know what it can do for you and remove the fear and doubt. I do apologize if my enthusiasm towards the great expertise of Mr.Wallace was misunderstood as a put-down to anyones current system. It was not. I love all martial arts. This seminar is to enhance what you already know, not to discredit it in any way. My school practices both WTF and Superfoot System kicking styles. I am a Tae kwon Do man who trains everyday and I love to kick. Anything new that I can learn about kicking is my cat's MEOW!!!! I hope it's yours too!! "The style doesn't make the man, it's the man who makes the style". I hope to see some of you there. Adam Gibson www.superfoot.com www.adamgibsontkd.com ------------------------------ From: Erik Kluzek Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 21:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Knife defenses On Mon, 8 Oct 2001 TNTcombatives@aol.com wrote: > Greetings All, > <> > > I teach (and practice) knife defense techniques taught to me through Jujitsu, Aikido, and a bit of 'Hey, that works!'...I was also taught knife defense techniques during part of my TKD training years, but the ones taught in that particular system were entirely laughable and somewhat dangerous. Stylistically, I would say that the techniques are more JJ than Aiki, and I am told they are very similar to what is taught in KravMaga.(dunno, never tried KM). > I know all of us have learned techniques that to put it mildly "we question". I'm curious if you could describe a few of the ones you thought were lousy as well as a few you find useful. I know it gets hard to describe techniques in ascii. Mostly, I'm hoping that at least some of us will have experience with something similar and will catch on to what you are saying even though you don't spell it out completly. One technique that I've been taught in the past that I'm not sure I could make work is the "kick it out of their hand". It seems to work real well if the knife is motionless, but I have a hard time kicking a hand that's moving. I'm kind of curious if anyone has been able to pull off a kick to a arm as a knife defense. One technique that I learned from a LEO was designed to be used against a novice knife handler. In it you lean in on a short front-stance with both hands out in a block to defend your gut. Basically you just stand there and let them beat up their forearms by trying to do a knife thrust into your gut. One of the idea's is that if you depend on timing most likely eventually your timing will be off and you'll get stuck. The problem with this technique is that it's basically useless against someone who know's something about a knife. If they start slicing my arms, or going to the neck -- I'm toast pretty soon. But, for a typical joe who really knows nothing about using a knife other than "stick him in the gut" -- I think it makes some sense. Another one I like for an overhead swing is to redirect into their gut. I know a overhead swing is a stupid technique -- but there's still those that don't know better out there. For a straight thrust -- there's one that I grab the knife hand twist around into horse-stance and I've got their shoulder pinned to my knee with one hand and their knife-hand in the other. One of the things I wonder about the most are effective techniques for a less exagerated knife-fighter. In many ways it's far easier to deal with someone that's just coming in with a straight lunge, than small motions that might be ripping my arms or legs to shreads. What are the thoughts there? And along with that how about a knife fighter that carries the knife in the rear hand, with the knife pointed down along the arm, and comes in with short slashes? I find that postion much more difficult to defend against. Thanks Erik Kluzek Longmont CO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:18:14 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Knife defense/Weapons training/reaction time > My problem is "reaction" time. When we practice self defense (any kind), I > don't react fast enough. If I already know what's coming, I can react, and > do the proper technique. But if I donno when or what my partner is going to > throw at me, I am basically screwed if it was a real fight/attack. > > Does reaction time get better with time/training? Is there an exercise, or > timing/reaction drill I can do to better my reaction time? I'd gladly take > any suggestions (this is a good one for the masters out there). > ... > 5th gup TSD First, don't expect perfection until you reach 3rd gup, maybe 2nd gup. :) Don't rush it, it takes time. Work on your form, your basic movement, and practice it WITH GOOD FORM as frequently as possible. All too often we only get to practice some movement or set of movements once a week or perhaps every other week. Then when we do get to practice it we worry about speed and power. Speed and power will come with proper basics, good form and precise movement. Good reaction time will come (hopefully) after you 'see' the attack several thousand times, under a variety of situations. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: TNTcombatives@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:31:26 EDT Subject: the_dojang: knife/OC/forms stuff/group question DREW asked <> Well, being the shaggy type, and wearing glasses, the OC did not have full effect. After the incident, he reacted to the OC...guess it had a chance to soak through the grime. BTW, 'Karate-in-a-can' does not always work. I can unhappily say that I am building up a slight tolerance to it...and I still hate getting sprayed. Skin oils/dirt, glasses, copious amounts of drugs/alcohol, hairyness, wind, rain are just some of the things that may nix the effects. DREW said <> Be sure that you are not counting on your ability to access the firearm vs. a threat advancing with a knife. One of my favorite segments of my police combatives training is when one of the cocky cop-types starts saying that he would 'just shoot 'em' (when attacked with a knife). It is a standing order that the instructor furthest away from the 'talker' immediately attack them (with rubber knife), cut them up, take their gun, and finish them with it. It only happens about 3 times/year, but when it does, it sure makes everyone pay attention and work hard during evasive movement practice! On the subject of forms timing, depending on the style, I think that forms look good at about 1 move every second for beginners, and a bit faster as the rank advances. Some forms (eg. Chang hun Po-eun) look great when done fast, provided full techniques are performed. When I judge forms, I generally look for an even tempo and complete techniques (along with a bunch of other stuff balance, power etc). OK, group question. What does everyone think about the mini-speeches given before a person does their form in competition. I am finding that the way it is delivered is making me irritable when I judge. I like when someone introduces themselves and their form, but the length of the speech and the fact that the performers sometimes scream it at me is bothersome....anyone else? Train hard, Mark Gajdostik ------------------------------ From: hapki@gmx.net Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:46:07 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Dojang in Washington D.C.? Greetings From Koje-do, S. Korea, I'll be working for ~ 1 month in Washington D.C. If anyone knows of a hapkido dojang near 500 H St. N.W. that wouldn't mind a "guest" training with them please let me know. Hapki!, Tao Koje, Korea ------------------------------ From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 07:58:12 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Hyung Brian, You touched on several points in hyung practice in your post. First, the better a person knows a hyung, read the more times practiced correctly, the faster that individual can execute the hyung with all the proper techniques and stances. This is why you see advanced ranks doing the hyungs much faster sometimes. Some of our gup hyung have a suggested time of 45 seconds to complete, but I remember that the testing board of timed us in a master candidate test. All 30 of us testing were executing the hyung in less than 20 seconds. It was very difficult to perform the hyung and make it last 40 seconds, took 3 tries as I remember. (Just one of the little things that gets thrown at you in ko dan ja testing.) You have also noticed that people tend to sacrifice technique and footwork of hyungs when they try to do them faster before they are technically capable. That being said, most hyung systems have a definite speed for which to work. It is usually given as a range of time, because the speed is also based on body size and other factors. The larger the individual, the slower the pace of the hyung. Same general rule as for sparring. Now for your question. First understand that hyung competition is different from just doing the form for your own improvement. When judging hyungs, I personally look for 5 things: spirit, technique, stances, rhythm, and power. The only way I judge speed is if the person is doing the hyung so fast that their technique and stances are affected, or if they are so slow that the movements loose their meaning. Danny Dunn <<<<>>>> ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:33:14 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Form Stuff Dear Brian: ".... If you were judging forms in a tournament, how do you weigh speed, accuracy, and stances in form competition." You have me at a bit of a disadvantage in that as a traditionalist in Hapkido I don't support competition. However, we still practice hyung in our classes and there are a few qualities that I watch for and encourage as the Forms are executed. 1.) Regarding speed, I will say that all Forms that I have seen anywhere in MA are never performed consistently fast, or consistently slow. My experience has been that part of what the hyung teach are the ability to change-up/change-down speed in deference to the technique or situation. As when playing music, the melody comes not just from the note you play but from how long the note is held, or whether it is slurred into the next note, etc. I look for the way in which the student has learned to execute a particular posture or technique as it relates to the over-all nature of the hyung, or perhaps a particular situation that the hyung presents at one point or another. 2.) Regarding accuracy, I support a balance between this and power. There are some students who are naturally strong enough that they must conclude that wherever they land a technique it will do damage, and honestly, in some cases they are right. In Hapkido, at the lower levels, the younger, stronger pratitioners can get away with this. In time, however, age alone will cause people to become either more accurate in their application or move on to some other activity. I support teaching a sound balance between accuracy and power. 3.) Concerning Form (stances and transitions between postures) this is probably my biggest nit to pick as it encompasses the ability to maintain balance/timing/focus throughout execution. To my way of thinking I train in Hapkido because there is something that I believe about the way that the art asks me to use my body that other methods don't seem to address for me. The challange is to make my body conform to this method rather than just do whatever it feels like doing. Certainly in a combat situation I wouldn't be this pre-occupied with Form, but in training--- in hyung--- the idea is to aspire to an ideal. In hyung, I expect that students will work to make sure that they can make their body unconsciously produce the proper stance, shift, strike, kick, etc. at the proper time with the appropriate quality. Guess thats about it, except to say that I don't support the idea of students making-up their own Forms. We are all Human and I thoroughly expect that when students make up their own forms (especially for competition) they neatly showcase what they do well and circumvent those techniques they need to work on. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Mary Braud Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:38:42 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: form speeds <> > If you were judging forms in a > tournament, how do you weigh speed, accuracy, and stances in form > competition. <> - -------------------------------- Dear Mr. Woodard: I am a lowly 1st Dan, but I do get the chance to judge lower ranks form competitions at some tournaments. When I first started judging, I asked many higher ranks what they looked for. Many of the things are intangible. Intensity was one of the items most frequently mentioned. No matter what speed they perform at, they should be TIRED when finishing their form. Accuracy also was mentioned frequently. A person under competition stress has to have practiced their form enough times so that they don't 'blank out' or momentarily hesitate because they briefly forgot what came next. Also, accuracy includes stances. A person can't be accurate if they don't do the proper stances. In many forms, the person should finish where they started, and that is a big factor to some judges. If I had to list three criteria in order of what I thought was most important, I would say 1)accuracy-including stances and body motions, 2)intensity-did you try your hardest (while maintaining accuracy)? and 3)speed. IMHO, the best speed is a natural speed. Let the judges see each movement, but not long enough to focus and take a picture! :-) (Note: this does not apply to those forms which have 'built-in' speed variances) Thanks for letting me share! Mary Braud ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 7:30:47 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #566 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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