From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #569 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 11 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 569 In this issue: the_dojang: tough training partners the_dojang: Re: Hapkido Forms? the_dojang: Re: Hapkido Forms? the_dojang: Stabbed the_dojang: youth forms Re: the_dojang: Stabbed the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #568 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "G'irts Kalnins" Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:04:35 +0300 Subject: the_dojang: tough training partners >From: "Dizzy S." >Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 01:24:09 -0400 Hello Dizzy, I know it's terrible, when you feel weak, stupid, or when you feel some other is light years ahead. I'm working in very competetive, intelligent industry (software developement) and I feel it every day. But in training I seek for stronger opponents. 'couse when my technique works I know I have done it right. And if you'd like your parner to go slower, until you catch up with the speed ask her/him politely but firmly: "Would you mind doing your excelent techniques little slower until I can do it correctly, O-master-o-rama?" Best regards, G'irts >We were praticing the >technique, and I happened to mention that my reaction time is slow. It >seemed like when she heard that, she started testing my speed. Not in a >"helping" way either. ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:36:53 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido Forms? Patrick, Oops, I'm zipping through the DD and answered your post hastily without taking the proper time to read. You asked what, not why? My bad. I was in my mindset of those who say HKD has no forms. I should be more attentive, funny how even when we know we should we aren't always. The forms I practice that I learned in Korea are not known forms like the ones in TKD. They have a strong Wushu influence as well, since Kwanjangnim Kim Young-Jong also had a Wushu background as well as Hapkido. There were four forms learned through 1st dan. The first form learned in three parts, then the next three forms. Kwanjangnim used to say, "TKD has many forms, we only have a few in HKD, so we must do them correctly and refine them all the time. Do them right, and do them well." And yes, we also had short forms with the bong, dan bong, and kum. (Staff, Short stick or baton, and sword) Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:29:28 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido Forms? >>>What hyung do you practice for Hapkido? - Are you refering to short bo, middle bo, or or mok-kum patterns? Getting in the WAY, Patrick<<<< Patrick, I'm not Bruce, but I practice Hapkido and I do forms. Why? Because my Hapkido instructors in Korea taught them, and for me to attain dan rank (or any rank for that matter) in their schools, which are under the Korea Hapkido Federation (the federation with the pointing finger patch that is headed by GM Oh, Se-lim), I had to learn them and was tested on them. I personally believe there is benefit to doing forms. Yes, you can learn to fight and learn effective self-defense without them. But there are other aspects of martial training that forms are good for. That is why I perform and teach forms in my Hapkido. Do all the KHF schools in Korea require forms? No. But mine did. So I do them, and will continue to do them. Sometimes I am humored when some say "real hapkido" doesn't have any forms. Some do, some don't. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 01:07:41 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Stabbed JR Writes: > I was about to get stabbed in >> the belly. >> >> Ray Terry > > Ray: > Didn't this sort of thing just happen to you?.....J.R. West ;-) JR, as I heard it, he did not even block either:) Rudy ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: youth forms There is quite a difference between the motor skill ability of an adult and a child. Understanding, of course, that in tournaments age brackets are established... but asking more in a testing and promotion sense... how do the judges and instructors here compensate for the differences in ability of children and adults to accurately, cleanly, purposefully, etc execute the moves of a form. How do you all feel? Is it enough for a 4-year-old white belt to simply know which way to turn and which hands and feet to use in TaeGeuk Il Jang? Or should more be expected? What about, for example, a 10-year-old blue belt? Penny for your thoughts... - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Libby, For my one 4.5 yo and all 5 yo's I work on teaching them the first half of Ki Cho Hyung Il bu (form #1) for 9th Gup, and the entire form by 8th gup yellow belt. However, forms are not a requirement for promotion until 7th gup in our kwan. At that age and gup level I expect memorization of the 20 moves and proficient GROSS motor motion. I just keep in mind they have 5 years to become 10 yo blackbelts and so it's more important for them to keep coming to class and practicing. If they know the entire form they can practice at home. Yes, at about Green Belt Level (6th Gup) regardless of age I expect to see things like distinct stances, consistent chambering of the non-action hand, and the beginings of some fine motor motion. I suspect that many of my now 5 yo white belts may spend half of their 6th year of life as orange belts, but that's OK too. My youngest promotions to date are an 8.5 yo red belt (2nd gup) and two 10 yo cho dans. Both of these students are excellent technicians. Neither would be capable of judging a tournament or leading an adult class, but both were active helpers/instructor trainees at my former commercial school. My age 10 and up students train with adults and are treated as young men and young women. The standards are the same for all 10+ students. There are a number of factors that tend to equalize grading/judging their hyungs/poomse Youth Adult Flexability+ Power+ Speed+ Timing+ Open Minded+ Fine motion refinement+ Quik learner+ Willing to practice towards perfection+ and so on .... the above are of course generalizations and my VHO's Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 12:08:24 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Stabbed > > I was about to get stabbed in > >> the belly. > >> > >> Ray Terry > > > > Ray: > > Didn't this sort of thing just happen to you?.....J.R. West ;-) > > JR, as I heard it, he did not even block either:) I tried... but they had both my arms -and- legs pinned down. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Ingold, Brian CONTRACTOR" Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:39:38 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #568 Dizzy - I would urge you to exercise patience with this situation. It seems that you are encountering a fork in the road on your Way. You have a choice of direction here, and it appears that this other student is offering her help. Whether or not the help is in good spirit, you have been presented with an opportunity to grow & strengthen yourself. It seems clear that you have the energy to persue the rewarding path (frustration does not come from a willingness to surrender), so remember that Courage, Perserverence, & Indomitable Spirit are tools you can use to follow Ray's advice. Stay strong and keep thinking - your mind is your #1 tool. Brian From: "Dizzy S." Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 01:24:09 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #566 I wrote: <<<<>>>> Ray_responded: <<<<>>>> Thanks Ray :o) The reason a brought it up was because this girl in my school. She's a 6th gup, but she has 10 years experience (she bounced around alot cause of the military) in other styles. We were praticing the technique, and I happened to mention that my reaction time is slow. It seemed like when she heard that, she started testing my speed. Not in a "helping" way either. Like she was showing off. It seems like when she finds a weakness of mine, she "preys" on it, and makes me feel terrable. It seems like everytime I work with her, she "brings me down" ..... like "why am I wasting money to be here if I haven't learned anything". I donno if she realizes that she does it. maybe she is really trying to help, but she goes about it the wrong way. Dizzy ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:23:57 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #569 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.