From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #581 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 18 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 581 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: self defense the_dojang: Re: aol 7.0 the_dojang: RE: More Hyung Stuf the_dojang: Chinese based Hyung Re: the_dojang: Chinese based Hyung the_dojang: AOL the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #579 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #579 the_dojang: Hyung the_dojang: The Complete Kano Jiu Jutsu the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BTBEACH@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:11:50 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: self defense The girls high school ( Holy Cross Academy, Kensington, MD) that was up the street from mine had part of their health class a self defense section. I dated a couple of the girls there and the only thing that I remember the girls saying about it, (it was a but they seemed to get a kick out of it, it was sort of a mantra for the class) was grab twist and pull (as in the testicles) . My sister attended the the same high school later on and I don't know if it still was part of the curriculum when she attended but I'll ask her about it. Brian B ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:36:49 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: aol 7.0 In a message dated 10/17/2001 7:46:23 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:34:47 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: AOL 7.0 > hi ray, > for those of us poor saps still using AOL, do you know if the 7.0 version is > compatible with the list? just wondering if i should upgrade to 7.0 or not. > melinda Sorry, don't know. But it should if it allows you to switch from 'Rich Text' to 'Plain Text' email, e.g. as in Hotmail. The msg you sent was in Plain Text. But with AOL 6 there is also this (attached) workaround to 'fix' the 6.0 problem... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com >> understood. yes, i remember that mess. was not looking forward to having to go to aolmail. at the time this problem originated with 6.0 i decided to regress to a former version rather than have to bother with aol mail. i guess i'll wait til someone upgrades to 7.0 to see if there are problems on DD or ask aol if one can switch between plain text and rich text. thanks, ray, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com Toll Free: 1-877-847-4072 Proud Sponsor of the 2001 10th Annual US Open TKD Championships ------------------------------ From: bredfield Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:55:15 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: More Hyung Stuf Hey Bruce, Well O.K., here is one I believe is a Shaolin Long Fist form, So Rim Jang Kwan. ------------------------------ From: JFBulson@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:05:12 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Chinese based Hyung << Are there likewise, Forms readily identified in styles of Chinese Chuan Fa which have also been incorporated the Korean arts? >> Those of us who can trace their roots to the teachings of GM Yoon, Byung-In have both Okinawan and Chinese based hyung in our systems. GM Yoon was an expert in Northern Chinese (Manchurian) chu'an fa prior to traveling to Japan and practicing with Toyama Kanden of the Shudokan. The chu'an fa (kwon bop) hyung in this branch of Korean martial art include Doju San, Daejo Kwon, Dan Kwon, Chang Kwon, Pal Ki Kwon and others. Some of these are 2-person sets. Be well, John ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:07:14 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: Chinese based Hyung > and practicing with Toyama Kanden of the Shudokan. The chu'an fa (kwon bop) > hyung in this branch of Korean martial art include Doju San, Daejo Kwon, Dan > Kwon, Chang Kwon, Pal Ki Kwon and others. Some of these are 2-person sets. John, This is interesting... Can you tell us more about the 2-person sets? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do" Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:33:56 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: AOL for those of us poor saps still using AOL, do you know if the 7.0 version is compatible with the list? just wondering if i should upgrade to 7.0 or not. melinda - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- get a free for life email account www.hotmail.com www.yahoo.com use AOL only to get online use Explorer or Netscape to surf and Outlook for popmail (hotmail works great with Outlook Express) just leave AOL minimized in the background The real question is. Does AOL 7.0 support popmail too Outlook? Good Luck Charles "I Hate AOL" Richards _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:25:52 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #579 In a message dated 10/17/2001 10:49:07 AM EST, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: >>From: "Jung Su Dave" Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 23:04:10 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: More on Bassai << Additionally If you train under Grandmaster Seo. His Bassai Sho is completely (and I do mean Completely) different from the other Bassai Sho's out there. >> Would that be Grandmaster Myung Seok Seo? He is the Grandmaster who taught my Headmaster the Tang Su Do forms we use in Han Guk Mu Sool, including Bassahee So. He lives in the Washington DC area, or did the last I heard.... Craig ------------------------------ From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:44:38 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #579 In a message dated 10/17/2001 10:49:07 AM EST, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: Charles Richards Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 05:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] Wanted to stay out of the Bassai/Pal Che thread because most of what I had to say has been said. But this caught my interest..... "one side kick and two front kicks I do not know where the two front kick come from, Hhmmmm must have dozed off or something. >> Sorry for the confusion....I managed to REALLYscrew up on this matter.....my memory is going too.... I was mixing So and Tae (Somewhat easy as they are somewhat Simular...) After checking my notes again, So has only two kicks -- A right side kick (Move # 24) and a right front snap kick (Move # 30) Both are delivered off the back leg. Tae has a right side kick (Move #21), two right inner cresent kicks (Moves # 33 and # 36), and what I thought was two front kicks (Left kick - Move # 44: Right kick - Move #47), but on further reflection, these kicks are inner cresent kicks. My mind's been occupied with other things, and I didn't think this all the way through like I should have. Sorry for any confusion..... Craig ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:22:56 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Hyung Bruce writes: > I know that the Kuk Sool and HwaRangDo people > practice arts whose biomechanics seem "more Chinese". Can anyone who > practices the arts identify forms borrowed from Chinese boxing and give some > information about their background. Rudy? Carsten? Steve? Hello Bruce. As you know, I care more about what the hyung DOES for me (and my students) than I care about its origin. Nevertheless, I'll give your question a stab. Keeping in mind that I can only contribute what has been handed down to me by my Instructors, and what my stubborn Dutch mind has formulated over fifty years of practice:) I am sure that we have more qualified people on the list who can give a different perspective on this. Kuk Sool, by its very name, refers to Korean martial arts. Even though the forms do have a resemblence to Chinese forms, they are thought (said) to be of Korean origin. Some were even used as folk dances. As I look at Chinese forms performed by Shaolin Monks and other Chinese practitioners, there is a resemblence that is striking to the average practitioner; however, I personally still see a difference. Common sense dictates to me, and here is where I rely on my gut feelings, that the influences of Japanese and Chinese arts have no doubt influenced Korean arts (and vise versa), much the same as the hamburger has influenced the Oriental diet over the years. IMHO, it is ludicrous to believe that any astute warrior of old would have nixed a good technique simply because it was not native to him. Following this line of thinking, I believe that there is a certain amount of Chinese influence in Kuk Sool hyung, and I base this observation on the historical data we have on the shifting borders of Korea and China. Similarly, there appears to be some historical evidence that Korean and Chinese armies formed a coalition at one point. Since my training in the 50's, I have personally seen a plethora of arts combine and or change, and I think this is simply a continuing evolution that has been going on as long as men have observed other men fight. I have noted a definite change in the way Kuk Sool hyung are performed these days. Westerners (and Westernized Orientals), unaccustomed to the Oriental way of life without elevated furniture, teach Kuk Sool in a different way, and I have noticed that in many schools stances are now much higher than even thirty years ago. Evolution strikes again, and it might simply be a result of the different way legs develop by getting up and down from floor height (instead of getting up from elevated positions such as chairs). Off the specific topic. With more students looking at hyung as just another thing to do in order to pass to the next belt, the real purpose of using the hyung (to train the body and mind) is often forgotten. This is to the detriment of the art. Doing Kuk Sool hyung without trying for low stances is like a Sunday driver using a race car. You only get out of it what you put into it. Hyung are a great "sport specific" training tool, too bad so many student use them for Sunday driving. I'll get off my soap box now:) Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:06:26 EDT Subject: the_dojang: The Complete Kano Jiu Jutsu I have a friend looking for "The Complete Kano Jiu Jutsu." Does anyone know how to find a copy? Anyone have a copy they want to part with? He had been told there were photo copies floating around as well. Anyone know? Thanks! Yours in Training, Alain ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 7:08:23 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #581 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.