From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #593 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 23 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 593 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Conflicts ending the_dojang: RE: UK the_dojang: RE: Tang So Do Forms the_dojang: RE: Tang Soo Do Hyungs the_dojang: Re: Naihanchi Applications Re: the_dojang: RE: UK the_dojang: Re: Bitterness has ceased the_dojang: Re: Meaning of Niahanchi the_dojang: Judging Forms the_dojang: Ethnic bias in Martial Arts the_dojang: TSD Hyungs the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #591 the_dojang: Martial child abuse?!?!?!?!? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #592 the_dojang: Fellow AAU Members, I need your assistance! the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jon David Payne" Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:55:32 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Conflicts ending >>Response: Jon, I seem to recall (in the inner cesspools of my mind) that I use to "conflict" with you on the KSW list or was that another person ? Then I was an angry middle aged man. Now, I am a conflict avoiding middle aged man. Will wonders never cease. Where is the Professor ? I need someone else to pick on. Ken McD...>> Major McD... (unless you're an 0-5 now), We had a light debate on the merits of the USAF Security Police on this list. I was never a part of the KSW list. I was on the "other" list until I unsubscribed for obvious reasons. I tried to get back on that list out of curiosity about a year ago and was told I wasn't welcome. Needless to say, my feelings were hurt and I haven't slept the same since. :^) Jon David Payne ------------------------------ From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:07:11 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: UK Is there any members on the list from the UK or is it mostly form the US ?? ken ;0) ------------------------------ From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:07:05 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Tang So Do Forms Craig, You are we are both right, may be it way the way I worded it, and yes there is a left back fist in the sam dan (just been going over the 3 hyungs in my hotel room so I don't make another complete fool of myself). Like I say it was my instructor who told me you were up against a wall hence the movements, blocks/strikes to left front and right. May be it was his way of telling us the hyung was executed in a straight line (bad interpretation on his part one thinks). regards Ken :0) ------------------------------ From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:07:09 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Tang Soo Do Hyungs Craig wrote: Every movement is a strike of some sort (At least, that is what I was taught) There's foot sweeps, stomps, head-butts, elbows, backfists, hammerfist, and other good stuff. Nai-Ahn Chi Sam Dan has upwards of 70 moves, and is my favorite form. It's not the light supple movement of the Bassahee forms, but is almost pure power and strength. If the Bassahee forms are like the Cobra, the Nai-Ahn forms are like a bull Elephant. With the exception of the foot sweeps and knee strikes, they are almost all hand techniques. They are intense, hard to learn, but satisfying once you master them..... Responce: And very fast too!! LOL Ken ------------------------------ From: Tom Marker Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:04:25 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Naihanchi Applications << From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #590 Tang So Do Forms My old instructor told me that it meant iron horse and that you are fighting/defending with your back against a wall that is why it is only the left and right moves in it. has anyone else got a different view I wonder. regards Ken Shinson Tang Soo Do >> Ken (and others), For a completely different outlook on Naihanchi, you might be interested in Nathan Johnson's book "Barefoot Zen." Nathan teaches what I believe he calls Zen Shorin Do. His Naihanchi theory is that the 3 Naihanchi/Tekki forms are from an old Chinese form named Naifuanchin which is a two-man form that basically moves from joint lock to joint lock, escape to escape, counter to counter. In other words, he doesn't do any sort of ballistic strikes. I believe there might be a more circular pattern to the walking as well. I've bought the book, but haven't had time to do more than glance at the material. You can visit Mr. Johnson's site and learn a little more: http://freespace.virgin.net/zsd.karate/ Tang Soo! Tom Marker ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:45:14 PDT Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: UK > > Is there any members on the list from the UK or is it mostly form the US ?? > Darn! Another troublemaking Brit slipped in. Guess my screening techniques need improvement. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "David N. Beck" Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:34:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Bitterness has ceased Ken said: >Remember that line in Billy Jack, something like "When I see these beautiful >kids like this, it just makes me go crazy..." "... it just makes me go ber-ZERK!" with a backhand knife hand chop, as I recall. Great scene. I think Alain and I got kicked off the other list about the same time. As I said at the time, how what's essentially a conversation with people you don't know on one list is 'disloyal' to people you don't know on another list is beyond me... David N. Beck, WATT Lead Engineer Internet: David.Beck@usa.alcatel.com Phone: 972-519-3103 Address: MS SDVS-2, 1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:19:11 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Meaning of Niahanchi In a message dated 10/23/2001 12:41:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << My old instructor told me that it meant iron horse and that you are fighting/defending with your back against a wall that is why it is only the left and right moves in it. >> We tell the kids it is defending a castle ... I have heard also that it is defense in a rice paddy ... you know how they have those narrow walkways up there ... Illona ------------------------------ From: "Dizzy S." Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:40:09 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Judging Forms Hiya all. I went to a tourny this past weekend. I competed in forms and breaking. I got 3rd place in forms, but this girl who messed up her form (mixed pyung ahn ee dan and sam dan together) got 2nd. Go figure. What she do that I didn't? The same thing happened in breaking. I broke with three kicks .... axe kick, side kick, back kick. I didn't break with the side kick on the first shot, but got it on the second. Another lady didn't break anything on the first shot, but she placed and I didn't. What is it that judges look for when they judge forms and breaking? Do you have any advice for me to help me do better? Thanks in advance. Tamg Soo! Dizzy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:36:37 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Ethnic bias in Martial Arts When reading the current thread on the willingness of some folks to pass by a perfectly good school to train at one with an Oriental instructor, it reminded me of something that happened to me several years ago. I was invited to attend a rather large TKD tournament in Alabama, to do a HapKiDo demonstration, so I gathered up several of my dan grade students and made the trip. As those of you that know me are aware, I don't have anything on my uniform to indicate what rank I am, other than a black belt. Our demonstration went fairly well, and we were one of only two demos during the day, even though there must have been 30 Korean "masters" in attendance. Towards the end of the day, black belt sparring was going on, and one of the judges asked to be relieved to take care of some business of a "personal" nature, leaving one corner of the only ring without a judge. I, still in my uniform, offered to jump in and hold down the fort until original judge returned. I was told "thanks, but NO thanks, we just want masters for judges" (I was a 7th at the time). It was at this point that I went ballistic and pointed out that the "master" running the center of this ring was one of my 2nd dan students, who just happened to be Korean. ------------------------------ From: "Dizzy S." Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:13:46 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: TSD Hyungs Craig wrote: <<<>>> Coolness! I'm only a 5th gup (I'm only up to pyung ahn sam dan), but getting a "head's up" on the higher forms is cool. From the sounds of it, I think I'm also going to like the Naihanchi forms :o) My favorite so far is pyung ahn ee dan. It took me the longest to learn but worth it :o) Craig again: <<<>>> I donno anything about GM Seo, but most of the TSD clubs/assn's I know of pretty much do the same thing in all the forms. The IMA and ITF (International TSD Fed, not the TKD ITF lol) are exactly the same, because GM Yi (IMA) and GM Kim (ITF) trained together as youngens (and they are still good friends). I know the WTF (World TSD Fed, again not the TKD one lol) changed the first three kicho hyungs, but the rest are the same. But the tourny I attended last weekend (TSD and TKD tourny) was wierd. One girl I competed against, her school does TSD forms and TKD forms. I forget the what assn she said that she was a member of. Ok, I'm babbling lol. Enough of me lol. Tang Soo! Dizzy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: DWoods321@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:26:38 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #591 Ray, Please excuse me. You are correct Professor Kano did want Judo to be a "Do". I should have stated it as the Japanese government made it into a sport as opposed to the western Greco-Roman Wrestling. Take care and God Bless! Tang Soo! David Woods ------------------------------ From: "Dizzy S." Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:31:39 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Martial child abuse?!?!?!?!? Sounds like this guy who wrote the article needs a lesson in martial arts. All he talked about was "fighting". He didn't mention that martial arts builds character, disipline and self esteem in these kids. Sounds like his kid is the a bully type and picked on the wrong kid (one who knew matial arts)....... hehehehehe Tang Soo! Dizzy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: DWoods321@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:22:16 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #592 Dear Bruce, One thing I have found is that their were possibly as many as 10 Shaolin Temples. Some of these were just villages where secret societies ran to escape the Chinese government at that time. If I recall the one that was really fameous for this was the one on the outskirts of Nansei.(Had to dust the cobwebs off for that one!) At any rate, the Shaolin connection that almost all martial arts try to link their heritage with should be played down. Even Dr. Yang, Jwing Ming states this in his White Crane book, at least I recall that that is the one he says it in. Anyhow I believe it was in the mid to late 1300s that the 36 families came to Okinawa from China to pass on Chinese trades and crafts as part of a tributary treaty that the two nations had with each other. Most of the people came from Fouchou, China. If you take an objective view(I am not meaning that you are unobjective by any means) at the stance work, theory of power and kata that are representative of Naha-te and Shuri-te and then look at someone perform their respective root styles you will understand beyond the shadow of a doubt that this is true. There is an old expression in China that goes, "Northern feet, Southern hands." This saying is in regard to northern kung fu styles using a plethora of kicks and high kicks at that. The last portion is meaning that the southern kung-fu styles use primarily hands due to the landscape one had to fight in there. Dear Dakin, Grandmaster Hwang trained in China around 1936-1938 so which ever you would think it would be. Also Grandmaster Hwang trained in Yang style Tai Chi Chuan. Gentleman thank you for your input and interest. Take care and God Bless! Tang Soo! David Woods ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:06:04 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Fellow AAU Members, I need your assistance! Forwarding along for Mr. Taylor... Dear Fellow AAU Members, My name is Todd Taylor and I am the AAU Chair for Taekwondo for Montana. I am trying to put a list together for all AAU contacts in the USA and am looking for any help you can provide me. All I currently have for each of you is your e-mail address, but as you can well imagine, this doesn't provide me with much information. I have used the lists from e-mails that others in the AAU have sent to me. If you should receive this e-mail more than once, I apologize up front, but I am hopeful you understand. Any additional AAU Members information you have in addition to your own information would be helpful. Most specifically, I am looking for Full Name Rank Address City, State, Zip Phone Fax Etc., etc.... Sincerely and respectfully I remain, Master Todd Taylor President, Summit Martial Arts, Inc. AAU Chair, Montana 1525 South Avenue West Missoula, MT 59801 Tel: 406-542-7465 Fax: 406-542-2155 e-mail: summit@montana.com e-mail: ttaylor@MartialArtsCompanion.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:07:54 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #593 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!