From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #597 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 24 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 597 In this issue: the_dojang: Morality and Self-Defense the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #595 the_dojang: AOL mail the_dojang: Re: More hyung/kata stuff & a possible resource the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #596 the_dojang: Buddhism and Killing the_dojang: Crazy - Berserk the_dojang: RE:Lau Gar Kung Fu vs TKD/TSD the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick L" Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:18:14 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Morality and Self-Defense Mr. Sims, As you point out, an Instructor should bring up and examine the morality of violent defense, and possibly killing. IMHO most students worth having will eventually need to examine this issue, and having already been there, we may be able to provide worthwhile direction. On this topic you brought up, I offer a different line of thinking for your consideration: >By way of example I was one of those listening to a spokesman for NATION OF ISLAM the other day as he espoused Consciencous Objection for individuals of that faith so as to avoid the chance of Muslims killing Muslims at the behest of Infidel policy. ...From a warriors' point of view, this individual would be expected to hold fast to his (C.O.) beliefs despite pressure from his public to conduct himself otherwise, yes?< An argument might be made that a decision of NOT killing a person solely because of same faith has as its basis the same discrimination as killing a person BECAUSE of his faith. This would invalidate the "morality" of such a C.O. argument. You and I could go back and forth about "warrior's" responsibilities, but taking a more personally palatable position that allows for a measure of agreement, considerable weight should be the "individual's" position to determine the suitability of C.O. status, regardless of external pressure. I believe many C.O. have in the past shown great courage, both of their convictions, and in their Military Service to their country. Getting in the WAY, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: DWoods321@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:45:53 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #595 Dear Bruce, You had a good Shudokan teacher it sounds like and basically what you stated he taught you is correct. I read a story about a year or so ago about a Chinese Kempo fellow from Mass. who finally realized that the secret of chinese martial art is to utilize Shaolin Kung Fu in unison with ChinNa. "Big secret" all he had to do is dig up and study old Okinawan martial methods even from just the turn of the century to figure that out. I should not be that critical though as one man's mundane training practice is another man's secret. Just remember what my friend Pat McCarthy says,"There are no superflous movements in classical karate-do, everything does something." Take care and God Bless! Tang Soo! David Woods ------------------------------ From: "Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do" Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:38:51 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: AOL mail For my computer jock friends.... Is it possible to have Outlook capture AOL pop.mail or does AOL even use pop.mail? Trying to help some other instructors... have a great day, - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is from one of my 7th Gups that works for an internet security company (read computer jockey). Good luck with AOL. Yes, well, sort of. See: http://members.aol.com/adamkb/aol/mailfaq/#3rd-party If it helps, AOL also has a mail interface to the real web, check out http://my.screenname.aol.com/_cqr/login/login.tmpl?siteId=motw&siteState=0 Also see: http://www.enetbot.com/ Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:13:31 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: More hyung/kata stuff & a possible resource Dear Tom: "...This might have been one of the reasons I ended up putting the book down, since I got the impression that instead of saying "there are several interpretations of all forms which have validity" he was saying "your way sucks. Neener neener neener." :) ...." Yep. Thats exactly the kind of attitude that keeps all this material in the area mysticism and New Age hocus-pocus. My sense is that not a few MA folks simply can't approach the Arts unless everything is pinned-down, boxed-up and tied-off with a ribbon. Failing that there is the over-reaction in the other direction in which the position touted is that there are NO firm answers of any sort and everything is up for grabs. Lots of stalwarts here, too. Its that hazy area in between that seems to scare the pants off of most practitioners. You know, that place where one is actually expected to take what they have learned, draw some educated conclusions and then stand by their results. No small feat, that. Putting esoterica to one side for a minute, have you found anyone who consistently does a decent job identifying manipulations in the kata or hyung? I would mention Osensei Nakayama's BEST KARATE series but he seems to hold pretty much with concussive interpretations. I tried M Dillman for a bit but I am afraid his stuff is just a bit too exotic for my tastes. Any recommendations? As far as the other point I mentioned about individuals who could furnish some insightful material on the Kata and the origins (and most probably on interpretations as well) here is a response I have from one SABAKI Net individual. I post it here in its entirety. "...Sharing information is a good thing unless it is inaccurate information.:) Like it has been mentioned before, at some point in history it all becomes a guess, but when the forms are identical and have a longer history, it is much easier to assume the connections. My first black belt was in Taekwondo, and have trained in Okinawan and Chinese arts for over 35 years now. The more I train, the more I see the similarities. I am always willing to share, although most of the time I don't have a clue. I can make educated guesses sometimes when it comes to out and out fraudulent statements. :) Anything relating to the Chinese arts, I can always ask my guest from Mainland China. Feel free to give out my address - - Terry@americanblackbeltacademy.com. Respectfully, Terry L. Bryan, Executive Director American Black Belt Academy "Making a difference, by empowering our students to greatly increase their human performance, through classical martial arts training." www.americanblackbeltacademy.com...." Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #596 "Hey, hey! On behalf of the cranky guys in this world I resemble that remark!! " Dear Bruce Unlike our friend in Mr Alagna's link, your opinions "cranky or not" are at least rooted in some knowledge or research. This is not to say that I, or any one else, has to agree with everything you say, but at least you think before you say it. This by itself is an unusual occurence. Neal Konecky ===== Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty. John F. Kennedy (1917-1963) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 21:07:39 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Buddhism and Killing Just a side note to Bruce's comment.... When I was at Dr. Maung Gyi's Combat Camp last weekend, he mentioned that Buddhist states had to develop combat systems that killed people quickly, so That they didn't suffer too much. He also noted that although the unit of Ghurkas he was trained in was interested in this sort of quick kill, other units of the Ghurkas believed that one's enemy should have to listen to the groans of his wounded comrades for as long as possible (to weaken morale) and therefore indulged in mortal wounds that were not quick and clean, but rather were long and lingering (such as stomach wounds). For what it's worth, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:09:33 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Crazy - Berserk Ken, Sorry it has taken so long to get you the Billy Jack quote. :-) I'm catching up after being at conference in Boise last week/weekend. David hit it right though with the Berserk. (Guess together we can both impress yellow belts, huh?) BTW, you can order a lot of Billy Jack stuff at the official Billy Jack site too, and one of the shirts is the "Berserk" shirt. For all you real Billy Jack fans: Bernard . . . oh . . . I want you to know . . . that I try. When Jean and the kids at the school tell me that I'm supposed to control my violent temper and be passive and nonviolent like they are, I try, I really try. But when I see this girl of such a beautiful spirit so degraded, and I see this boy that I love sprawled out by this big ape here. . . And this little girl who is so special to us that we call her God's little gift of sunshine and I think of the number of years she's going to have to carry in her memory the savagery of this idiotic moment of yours . . . I just go . . . berserk! Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: bredfield Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:29:46 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Lau Gar Kung Fu vs TKD/TSD <<>> Hi Rich, UHMM, In TSD we do have weapons training, 6ft / 3ft staff , Tanto, Broad Sword, Long Spear, Also we do meditation exersise before and after class,Chi Kung breathing , such as the eight peices of brocade, lower and upper level breathing, I have also have 2nd level Reiki training . Tang Soo Bernard ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:45:59 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #597 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!