From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #599 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 25 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 599 In this issue: the_dojang: Re:UK the_dojang: Home again the_dojang: Bassai + Other Hyung/Poomse the_dojang: School in Denver? the_dojang: RE:Resonse stuff the_dojang: Eskrima the_dojang: RE: Gold Bars on my belt the_dojang: Re: BB Judges at Tourney's the_dojang: Kukkiwon textbook the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Loucat101@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:59:36 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re:UK I'm English.../Welsh and proud of it :-) Louise ------------------------------ From: Todd Miller Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:11:42 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Home again We also just got back from our trip to Korea. It was an amazing time as it always is training with GM Lim and the Jungki Kwan. I also wanted to mention that GM Lim will be coming over next September for our New England Tournament of Swordsmanship as well as teaching semminars and maybe even an interveiw for TKD Times as well as DD if there is an interest? I would be happy to answer any questions about our trip or Original Hapkido and its history. Hapki Todd ------------------------------ From: "Damian Jones" Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 18:13:12 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Bassai + Other Hyung/Poomse Hi All, Can I just say that I've found the threads on the history and interpretations of the Bassai and Naihanchi Hyung very interesting even though I don't practice those hyung. I would be interested if people could extend the idea to other Hyung and Poomse, in particular the origins and interpretations of the WTF Poomse (Taegeuk, Koryo, Keumgang etc.) I am aware that the Korean forms were influenced by the Japanese Kata that were adopted (adapted?) in Tang Soo Do, how much of the influence is passed into Taekwondo? Are there sequences of techniques that have been transferred into Taekwondo Poomse with the same application or have the patterns lost something in the process? To my (limited) knowledge, the Taegeuk poomse were simplifed versions of the Palgue Poomse that were suitable for children. Did they "remove" some of the techniques and stop talking about application to make them simpler? Where did the Palgue come from? Karate? I often hear people talking about Bunkai in Japanese styles. Is there anybody aware of a similar thing happening in Korean arts, in particular Taekwondo? On a different note, recently there has been discussion about "another list", whilst I am unaware (apart from the odd post or two) what has happened here in the past I was wondering what other Martial Arts lists other subscribers to this list were on, if any. Any recommendations? I am interested in learning more about martial arts NOT in getting into arguments about whose list is the best. Thanks Damian _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:31:11 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: School in Denver? I have been asked for some help in locatin a school in Denver. The following is a QUOTE from the e-mails sent to me: >>>>As someone who studied "karate" the right way years ago, I am looking >>>>for a good dojo for my daughter -- one that teaches the phlosophical tenents along with the rest. I am in the south -east suburbs of Denver. If you have any names in this area I would greatly appreciate hearing back from you. > >Thank you so much for the prompt response! I am less concerned with the >style of martial art than I am with the philosophy. I studied Uechi Ru >years ago, which I enjoyed -- but I am looking for a place for her to build >her self-confidence, learn to protect herself, stay in shape, and hear the >same values that we teach at home. I do think that the "slow movement" >styles would not fit her well -- she has lots of energy! <<<<<< Can anyone on the DD give me a hand so that I can help this gentleman? George Petrotta http://taekwondo.4dw.com/ http://hapkido.4dw.com/ http://leftbehind2001.tripod.com/ http://isamartialart.tripod.com/ ISA CONSULTATION GROUP includes ISA Martial Arts, ISA Web Design and ISA Consulting Services! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:56:00 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Resonse stuff Dear Brian: There is probably not enough bandwidth on the Internet to address all the issues you have raised, but how about if I tease out a couple of the major issues and comment, yes? "...I am currently working to "untangle" myself from the teachings and style of Songahm TKD and the ATA...." That's a pretty good way to put it. Not a few organizations depend on "entangling" people to keep the money and prestige (number of students) coming their way. Getting untangled is much like getting a divorce or breaking up. Expect accusations, alienation from former friends and acquaintances, and a kind of desperation in your search to quickly find a new connection (on the "rebound", so to speak). You'll be gaging your new connections by your last relationship and you really ought not to do that--- but you will---- so take it slow and be choosey. I bet you have an idea of what you want out of your martial studies so begin by organizing an "independent study program" for yourself. After about a year you will begin to notice that you are crossing paths with some people who seem to be moving the way that you are. Most of us have depended on joining an organization or school to provide a shortcut through this process. Big mistake. Joining a school or organization only serves to increase the probability of finding like minded people. There are no guarantees--- as you found out with your current organization. My books are published and carried by Ingram. You can order them through Barnes & Nobles, Amazon.com, Borders--- and me--- if it comes to that. Check out Amazon.com for a thumbnail rundown on the books and on me. "...where to go to get "reliable" information on the various forms of TKD and other MAs that have been practiced in Korea...." If you are on this Net you have already tied into one of the best resources regarding information concerning Korea and its martial traditions. There is quite a library of passed volumes, a great FAQ section, and some of the best movers and shakers in Korean MA drop in from time to time and lurk or kick-in as the mood moves them. My wife and I learned a long time ago that going out to restaurants is too damn expensive for us to try to do all of our own research. Now we wait until someone whose judgement we respect recommends one. The same holds true for doing research into the martial traditions. But the hardest challenge I have found is breaking away from the idea that there is a single correct conduit of the absolute truth out there somewhere and that as soon as you find it you will be happy. Pick any activity you want and you will find within that population of practitioners some folks that are great, good, poor and complete garbage in their pursuit of that activity. Why should MA be any different? "....I also note that you speak of pursuing information on the Korean sword...." In traditional Hapkido there are six weapons that integrate with the rest of the empty-hand art. A lot of times students find an affinity for one weapon or pursuit over another. The soh bong people at 1st degree BB often get caught-up in the PP work associated with that weapon. The cane people at 3rd degree BB often become enamoured of that weapon & dealing with techniques associated with positions of disadvantage. I have had the honor of studying traditional HwaRang Kumdo under GM Hyi Koo here in Chicago. It addresses 4th degree BB criteria for Hapkido, but its pursuit has also taken on an independent interest for me. In traditional Kumdo the sword is learned and wielded as a weapon rather than an opportunity to strap on hogu (body armor) and bang away at each other with bamboo sticks. One last thing, and then I'll shut-up. Whether you know it or not you are about to demonstrate to yourself how important your pursuit of MA study actually is to you. I made a comment once on this Net that if people were truly invested in teaching MA they would do it whether they made money or not. In a way you are challenged the same way. If you are truly invested in using the pursuit of Korean martial traditions as a way of coming out of the best part of yourself, you will do it no matter what anyone else says or thinks about your choices. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:31:48 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Eskrima > other subscribers to this list were on, if any. Any recommendations? I am > interested in learning more about martial arts NOT in getting into arguments Do you practice Eskrima, Kali, Arnis or another Filipino martial art? Then you should join our Filipino martial arts e-mail distribution list, the premier internet discussion forum devoted to the FMAs. Eskrima-Digest is a ~1200 member e-mail distribution list for respectful and open discussion of the Filipino martial arts. 7+ years of continuous public service. The list is managed by "Majordomo". To subscribe to eskrima-digest send e-mail to the address; majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com with subscribe eskrima-digest in the BODY of the message, top line and left justified (not in the subject line). Make sure that your e-mail is NOT in HTML format, use 'Plain Text' if using Hotmail, Outlook or Outlook Express or send via aolmail.aol.com if you're using AOL 6.0. Brought to you by http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:27:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Gold Bars on my belt When I work on my '73 Triumph in my garage I sometimes fantasize about all the decorative doo-dads I can buy for it. Then I rmember the motocyle maxim that says "chrome don't get ya home" and I remember to put my efforts into that part of the bike that makes its more dependable and more road-worthy than prettier. I share this b/c when I go to another school, style, seminar, or demo I don't have a uniform with fringe, patches, decals, applique, loud colors or stripes. I am a third degree BB and my belt is duly marked so people know what kind of checks I am willing to write/cash about my abilities. My uniform is a clean, heavy black canvas and is unmodified from when I bought it except for the rolled up sleeves. I share this as I read the comments about uniforms and belts because there is something else that my dress says about me over and above the "shibui" ( J. "restrained elegance") of its presentation. What is communicated is that I don't spend a lot of time excusing myself or my performance, or explaining what I used to be able to do or why I don't do things well. I hope my plain dress underscores that I am now, and will ever on be, only as good as my last technique and that I make no bones about it. Perhaps this would be a good attitude to encourage. BTW: A quick note to M West--- Would you be interested in doing some extra work with myself, Dakin and a couple of others over and above what you might have planned for the November 10th seminar? We have exchanged some e-mails and wouldn't mind getting together to allow you an opportunity to present some material that might not ordinarily get a chance to see the light of day. Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:37:48 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: BB Judges at Tourney's In a message dated 10/25/2001 9:08:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << In the last few schools I've visited, it never fails that one of the young gup students will walk over to me and ask me "what kind of belt is that?" >> Well, if that gets you ... how about when someone walks into your dojang wanting information ... you are standing there with your uniform on with your black belt on ... and they ask you if are you a black belt ? I get that alot because I am a woman. And get bypassed at tourney's because I don't "look" like a black belt. I learned to overlook it years ago ... and have watched them appoint fathers of kids who have never taken a day of karate to judge rings ... and to appoint brown belts who "look" like black belts to judge a ring. That is the day I stepped back and said ... "no thanks" ... I don't want to be here. I went as far to point out the fact that these people weren't qualified to be in there 'over' a qualified black belt that was willing to judge ... but their answer was "you weren't at the judges meeting ... they were". mmmmmmmmmmm ... I had a school to run ... everyone there "knew" I was a black belt with my own school ... and they didn't know these other people ... but they still chose to put them in instead of me ... I see ! OK ! That was the last time I EVER offered to help out at that tourney. I just go now and watch ... never to judge. And I won't let my students compete in that tourney ... gosh only knows who the judges may be ! Illona ------------------------------ From: "T. Kennelly" Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:03:33 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Kukkiwon textbook > From: Brian Myers > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:22:45 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: Swords and Korean Martial Arts Tradition... > > > > Just a few more questions. I am currently working to "untangle" myself from > the teachings and style of Songahm TKD and the ATA. I have always had an > interest in the idea of "traditional" martial arts and recently came to the > conclusion that I needed to focus my efforts in systems other ther the > ATA's. I will plead ignorance, and ask humbly for more information on the > books you have written. I also ask your (and anyone else's) advice on where > to go to get "reliable" information on the various forms of TKD and other > MAs that have been practiced in Korea. You will find the Kukkiwon Textbook a useful addition to your TKD library. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:56:42 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #599 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!