From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #601 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 26 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 601 In this issue: the_dojang: Dojangs in Rochester NY the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #599 the_dojang: RE: Kukkiwon Question the_dojang: Re: Belts (was: BB Judges at Tourney's) the_dojang: RE: November 10th Seminar stuff the_dojang: TKD Denver the_dojang: RE: Wrestling stuff the_dojang: Killing and Culture the_dojang: Reflections from Long Island the_dojang: Re: Hapkido in Korea the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dizzy S." Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 01:33:15 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Dojangs in Rochester NY Hiya all. Does anyone know of any Hapkido and/or TSD dojangs in Rochester NY (or Monroe County)? Or maybe has friends or friend of a friend that teaches it up there? I'm moving there in the spring, and I would really love to stay with TSD/Hapkido. Soo Bahk Do would be my third choice. I looked through all the assn's, clubs, ect websites for TSD and HKD and had no luck. Please help. Thanks in advance. Tang Soo Dizzy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:35:18 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #599 Dear Damian: "...I would be interested if people could extend the idea to other Hyung and Poomse, in particular the origins and interpretations of the WTF Poomse (Taegeuk, Koryo, Keumgang etc.)...." I'm with you on this but must once again own that I do not have a background in TKD/TSD let alone have enough experience in these arts to discern between the nuances associated with ITF/UTF/WTF interpretations. I suppose there is an advantage to this ignorance (?) in that I would be examining such hyung without preconceived notions. However, rather than just toss out a lot of shots from the hip I'd like to take a look at the TSD hyung in M Parks' book (was able to find a paperback version for about $18US in B&N.com). I'll be investigating for Chinese influences and similar biomechanics to Chinese Forms and wouldn't mind sharing my thoughts a bit later. In the meantime I am open to other peoples impressions. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:40:16 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Kukkiwon Question Dear Brian: "...You will find the Kukkiwon Textbook a useful addition to your TKD library.." Can you say a bit more about what you (or others) have found useful about this book? To what degree do you feel it represents accurate or authentic information? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Jim Griffin" Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:43:20 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Belts (was: BB Judges at Tourney's) My favorite belt-oriented comment to date is from my son (currently a 7th gup). He and I were speaking with one of the black belts who had been practicing for a good number of years and after we parted, my son asked me what rank a "gray belt" is. :-) - --- begin quoted text --- From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:37:48 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: BB Judges at Tourney's In a message dated 10/25/2001 9:08:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << In the last few schools I've visited, it never fails that one of the young gup students will walk over to me and ask me "what kind of belt is that?" >> Well, if that gets you ... how about when someone walks into your dojang wanting information ... you are standing there with your uniform on with your black belt on ... and they ask you if are you a black belt ? Illona - --- end quoted text --- - ---===--- Jim Griffin www.wuma.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:49:11 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: November 10th Seminar stuff Dear M West: "...Perhaps we can have dinner or something on Friday night (if you can keep up with my guys)......" Sounds great. I am sure there will probably be a few folks that wouldn't mind jumping in at the last minute. For myself, I don't think I'll have a problem keeping up with your guys---- except for Matt. Where he is concerned I am afraid all bets are off. On the other hand, if you ever get around to bottling that intensity of his I have dibs on the first case. He's got a great heart. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 06:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: TKD Denver At 05:56 PM 10/25/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >>>>As someone who studied "karate" the right way years ago, I am looking > >>>>for >a good dojo for my daughter -- one that teaches the phlosophical tenents >along with the rest. I am in the south -east suburbs of Denver. If you >have any names in this area I would greatly appreciate hearing back from you. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I know Master Rich Hodder (7th Dan USKMAF) is in Steamboat Springs, CO, but he may be able to refer you to someone in Denver. Any thoughts Mst. Hodder? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:03:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Wrestling stuff Dear Ray: "..... We can verify the fact that Ssireum was practiced along with Tae-Kwon-Do(Korean-style Karate) during the Three Kingdoms Period in ancient Korea. ...." Thanks for a great little post on the history of Ssireum. I just wish they would quit using this TKD-in-the-3-Kingdom-period boiler plate. Its the sort of inaccurate generalization I have come to expect from less well-read sources and I was a little disappointed to see it included in this article. When I make a comment about the origins of Hapkido, for instance, I usually frame it as "the roots of Hapkido extend into such and such a period" or that "Hapkido arts are practiced in such and such a time frame". No real big thing; just my own stuff. I would also make the arguement that representations of Korean wrestling can be found on tomb walls going back quite a bit further than what was mentioned in the article. These techniques are also the same ones that are compared very closely to those found on the Egyptian tomb walls I mentioned some time back. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:27:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Killing and Culture Bruce wrote: Your comment about intent reminded me of an article I read about a year ago at the time that IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF ALEXANDER was being broadcast repeatedly on the education stations. I was given to believe that the attitudes towards warfare among northern European and Asian tribes focused on more what we might call today "total warefare". By this I mean that agrarian communities and tribes of more southernly tribes (say in the Fertile Crescent or Central Asia) tended to "push" their opponents out of a contested location, killing those who chose to make a stand and resist. On the other hand Sythians, Celts, Greeks (for example) thought in terms capturing-for-enslavement or killing as many of the enemy population as they could. My reply: My encounters with this sort of difference tends to be from an anthropological viewpoint, comparing the difference between chronic and almost ritualized border wars (between Amerindians for example) and the total war waged by Europeans against the Amerindians. Pres. Andrew Jackson adopted a baby he found after a battle in which he killed the parents. Amerindians used to club in the heads of the males and babies, but would take young males and women as slaves and/or replacement family members. Cabeza De Vaca's account of his life among the Indians in the early 1600s is very interesting on that score. A friend of mine also mentioned that from his years in Africa he learned that the best slaves (they still have them there) are considered to be kids between the ages of 2 and 6. That way, they're old enough to take care of themselves, but young enough that they don't remember much about their parents. That allows them to be integrated into the new family as permanent slaves that are also family members. I'm curious whether the ancient Scythians and Greeks actually captured adult males, or whether they followed this pattern of preying on the children and the women. That might reduce the differentiation between "total war" and the "chronic wars." Perhaps another difference would be that if we and our enemies believe in total warfare, we try to avoid it as much as possible. If we and our enemies believe in ritualized warfare, we tend to fight more often. The analogous relationship in martial arts would be between "dirty fighting" (ie. total war) and "fair fights" (ie. ritualized warfare). What do you think? By the way, the sources I've been looking at lately have been the nature channel's various documentaries on elephants. One was on gangs of juvenile male elephants beating up on rhinos and the like, and being brought under control by adult males being introduced to the herd. The other showed a baby elephant that was abducted by a rival herd and the mother's herd's efforts to regain the baby before it died of starvation (the rival herd would not suckle it). Interesting stuff, although I'm not sure of its application in musul! :) Take care, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:42:11 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Reflections from Long Island After a long hiatus from DD, I'm back to the "occasional" posting. Although my timing is horribly late, nonetheless I would like to comment briefly about September 11th. In the summer, I worked temporarily for Nasdaq at the offices at One Liberty Plaza, which was across the street from the World Trade Center. (One Liberty Plaza reopened on Wednesday.) I know too many people who lost family and friends in the Twin Towers. I'm sure there were many losses even in the Korean martial arts community: in Taekwondo and maybe even in Hapkido. A Korean value but also a universal value is Justice. It is not vindictive, but seeks to right the wrongs and also to protect the people so that they may live in peace. But Justice comes at a price. New York's Bravest (FDNY) and New York's Finest (NYPD) paid that price and heroically saved thousands of lives. For their sake, we now must have the courage to seek justice against the perpretators, regardless the cost, against all odds. Best wishes to all, Michael Choi Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:56:17 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido in Korea Sorry Andrew, I'm not a master, but while I was in Korea from May 2000 through June 2001, I could notice what you mentioned. I would interpret it differently. First, martial arts in Korea in general seems to be in decline. Koreans seem to lack the patience to train on a daily basis for years on end to learn martial arts. Second, there are too many distractions that keep the general public from being interested, such as: Starcraft, FIFA (PC game), Command & Conquer, Kaoroke, HOF houses, health clubs, etc. In addition, like America, Koreans these days seemed are into fades, hype, trends, or whatever you want to call it. I've seen a lot of schools that teach both Hapkido and Hae-Dong Kumdo. I've seen KHF Hapkido and Hae-Dong Kumdo schools, as well as IHF Hapkido and Hae-Dong Kumdo schools. I've seen schools that teach Hapkido, Kumdo, Kickboxing and other combinations as well. As Korea is industrializing, Korean society is commercializing. Dojangs are competing for a fickle public. So, a lot of dojangs in order to recruit students offer multiple martial arts. IMHO, it's becoming a mess. Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 8:40:35 PDT Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #601 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!